would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
Nov 18th 2008, 6:58 am
#46
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,687
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
They were 'affordable' because most of the costs were pushed out two or three decades in the future; by which time the managers would have taken their bonuses and stock options and either retired or found other work.
Guess what? Today is two or three decades in the future and the bill has arrived... and the auto makers can't pay it. The US government has a similar problem with its expensive, unfunded retirement benefits that are about to explode over the next 10-20 years.
Guess what? Today is two or three decades in the future and the bill has arrived... and the auto makers can't pay it. The US government has a similar problem with its expensive, unfunded retirement benefits that are about to explode over the next 10-20 years.
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about the role of a labour union in the 21st century. I come from a background where the NUM was considered more important to our lives than the Church. I don't think Arthur Scargill's insistence on a showdown with the Snatcher (and I know it wasn't one sided) did much to promote miners' interests.
Similarly, the autoworkers' union will have failed their members if GM cannot support their pensions.
Shouldn’t unions be looking after their members best long-term interests by helping the employer achieve competitiveness?
Nov 18th 2008, 7:12 am
#47
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
At an accounting conference I attended 8 years ago GM was highlighted as an example of a company that was insolvent by any definition other than an accounting one!
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about the role of a labour union in the 21st century. I come from a background where the NUM was considered more important to our lives than the Church. I don't think Arthur Scargill's insistence on a showdown with the Snatcher (and I know it wasn't one sided) did much to promote miners' interests.
Similarly, the autoworkers' union will have failed their members if GM cannot support their pensions.
Shouldn’t unions be looking after their members best long-term interests by helping the employer achieve competitiveness?
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about the role of a labour union in the 21st century. I come from a background where the NUM was considered more important to our lives than the Church. I don't think Arthur Scargill's insistence on a showdown with the Snatcher (and I know it wasn't one sided) did much to promote miners' interests.
Similarly, the autoworkers' union will have failed their members if GM cannot support their pensions.
Shouldn’t unions be looking after their members best long-term interests by helping the employer achieve competitiveness?
Nov 18th 2008, 7:16 am
#48
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,883
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
The workers have to be viewed as an asset not a liability.
It's a two way street and north American employers don't always see it that way.
Nov 18th 2008, 7:58 am
#50
Meh
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 887
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
At an accounting conference I attended 8 years ago GM was highlighted as an example of a company that was insolvent by any definition other than an accounting one!
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about the role of a labour union in the 21st century. I come from a background where the NUM was considered more important to our lives than the Church. I don't think Arthur Scargill's insistence on a showdown with the Snatcher (and I know it wasn't one sided) did much to promote miners' interests.
Similarly, the autoworkers' union will have failed their members if GM cannot support their pensions.
Shouldn’t unions be looking after their members best long-term interests by helping the employer achieve competitiveness?
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about the role of a labour union in the 21st century. I come from a background where the NUM was considered more important to our lives than the Church. I don't think Arthur Scargill's insistence on a showdown with the Snatcher (and I know it wasn't one sided) did much to promote miners' interests.
Similarly, the autoworkers' union will have failed their members if GM cannot support their pensions.
Shouldn’t unions be looking after their members best long-term interests by helping the employer achieve competitiveness?
Nov 18th 2008, 8:39 am
#51
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,687
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
I didn't know that. I know it is insured by the Federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., but I don't think they have escaped their obligation to continue to fund the pensions and benefits (yes, I should have been more precise earlier) of current an dpast employees.
Nov 18th 2008, 8:41 am
#52
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,687
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
Nov 18th 2008, 8:46 am
#53
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,687
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
I once went on a course, for accountants only, to train us in public speaking. At the end of the course I was voted the funniest speaker. I have yet to work out if:
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
Nov 18th 2008, 9:03 am
#54
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,606
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
I once went on a course, for accountants only, to train us in public speaking. At the end of the course I was voted the funniest speaker. I have yet to work out if:
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
It's almost Pythonesque.
Nov 18th 2008, 9:08 am
#55
Lotus-eater
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Cascadian Autonomous Elysian Region
Posts: 5,069
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
I once went on a course, for accountants only, to train us in public speaking. At the end of the course I was voted the funniest speaker. I have yet to work out if:
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
R.
Nov 18th 2008, 9:45 am
#56
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,417
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
I once went on a course, for accountants only, to train us in public speaking. At the end of the course I was voted the funniest speaker. I have yet to work out if:
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
a) It was a Herculean effort of comedy genius to make accountants laugh, or
b) being the funniest of a bunch of accountants is not exactly something to be proud of.
Nov 18th 2008, 12:25 pm
#57
Seasoned Maritimer
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick CA
Posts: 8,309
Nov 18th 2008, 6:51 pm
#58
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Posts: 403
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
Nov 18th 2008, 8:28 pm
#59
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando,Florida,living in Buckinghamshire for next 6 weeks.
Posts: 1,416
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
Yes I would recommend a GM vehicle especially the Tahoe & Yukons excellent people and cargo movers.Very comfortable and the quality of American autos have improved a great deal.Better than most European makes yet still lagging behind the Japanese.
Seem like the Euro car makers have become more interested in quanity than quality.Have experienced constant problems with my last two Mercedes Benz class R and S.Will not buy another Benz .Traded for a SL Lexus drives like a dream and not a problem 15,000 miles in.Best of all the freaking thing parks it self.
Seem like the Euro car makers have become more interested in quanity than quality.Have experienced constant problems with my last two Mercedes Benz class R and S.Will not buy another Benz .Traded for a SL Lexus drives like a dream and not a problem 15,000 miles in.Best of all the freaking thing parks it self.
Nov 19th 2008, 1:50 am
#60
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,892
Re: would you buy GM, Ford, Chrysler?
Yes I would recommend a GM vehicle especially the Tahoe & Yukons excellent people and cargo movers.Very comfortable and the quality of American autos have improved a great deal.Better than most European makes yet still lagging behind the Japanese.
Seem like the Euro car makers have become more interested in quanity than quality.Have experienced constant problems with my last two Mercedes Benz class R and S.Will not buy another Benz .Traded for a SL Lexus drives like a dream and not a problem 15,000 miles in.Best of all the freaking thing parks it self.
Seem like the Euro car makers have become more interested in quanity than quality.Have experienced constant problems with my last two Mercedes Benz class R and S.Will not buy another Benz .Traded for a SL Lexus drives like a dream and not a problem 15,000 miles in.Best of all the freaking thing parks it self.
More amusing is your assertion that US quality is improving, just before decrying the quality of your R-class (built near Tuscaloosa, Alabama). The R class has fallen hugely short of M-B's sales targets, largely because it targets a strange demographic - it doesn't perform particularly well as a sports cruiser, as a minivan, or as an SUV, but it has a three-pointed star on the front and M-B were hoping that would be enough to sell it to people for whom that was important.
