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-   -   Will you vote in the UK election? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/will-you-vote-uk-election-659559/)

jimf Apr 7th 2010 4:29 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 8479056)
It is not a uniquely Canadian phenomenon. Minority governments are largely dysfunctional. You could argue that it is one of the best features of them.

When did canada last have a majority government? Martin? Cretien?

The Dean Apr 7th 2010 4:39 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 8479118)
Quite. There's a strong school of thought that much of Canada's lauded stability and economically-less-messed-uppedness is a direct result of having a government that has been unable to pass any contentious legislation. While the three-way alliance of Libs, NDP and Bloc collapsed almost before it began at the end of 2008, it served its purpose in a way - Harper persuaded the GG to prorogue parliament to escape the inevitable confidence motion, and when they came back again there was a bit less ideological crap in the throne speech.

Perhaps, but it doesn't work that way in Europe.

For generations, the PR voting system has led to consensus wishy-washy compromise government, with nobody actually able to get anything done that might actually make a difference. The proportions are strictly adhered to, so you can often end up with an 'allocated' MP that had nothing to do with your constituency during the campaign. (Friends of mine in Frankfurt are represented in the Bundestag by an MP from Bavaria who, when questioned by a journo, had never heard of their neighbourhood).

Whether policy is good or bad, it's certainly better if it's definite.

JonboyE Apr 7th 2010 5:02 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by jimf (Post 8479198)
When did canada last have a majority government? Martin? Cretien?

Chrétien was the last person to win a majority though Martin succeeded him with that majority still in parliament. Martin formed a minority government after the 2004 election.

jimf Apr 7th 2010 5:38 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 8479118)
Quite. There's a strong school of thought that much of Canada's lauded stability and economically-less-messed-uppedness is a direct result of having a government that has been unable to pass any contentious legislation. While the three-way alliance of Libs, NDP and Bloc collapsed almost before it began at the end of 2008, it served its purpose in a way - Harper persuaded the GG to prorogue parliament to escape the inevitable confidence motion, and when they came back again there was a bit less ideological crap in the throne speech.

You seem to be saying a restrained Harper conservative government is a good thing for Canada?

What tyranical legislation did the liberals pass when they last had majority governments under Chretien and Martin?

Isn't the reality of the situation that the liberals haven't been strong enough to want an election since Harpers been in so they let him get on with it as long as he doesn't go too far. If the liberals were up in the polls and they though they could win it they would force an election straight away.

Almost Canadian Apr 7th 2010 6:08 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by jimf (Post 8479047)
It's normal for sovereign independent nations to have foreign non residents as head of state.

What, like the US, Germany, France, Italy, etc?

jimf Apr 7th 2010 6:24 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 8479390)
What, like the US, Germany, France, Italy, etc?

Just using JAJs words (ironically) in connection with the Canadian head of state.

Almost Canadian Apr 7th 2010 7:07 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by jimf (Post 8479416)
Just using JAJs words (ironically) in connection with the Canadian head of state.

But he was talking about voting:confused:

Oakvillian Apr 7th 2010 7:35 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by The Dean (Post 8479220)
Perhaps, but it doesn't work that way in Europe.

For generations, the PR voting system has led to consensus wishy-washy compromise government, with nobody actually able to get anything done that might actually make a difference. The proportions are strictly adhered to, so you can often end up with an 'allocated' MP that had nothing to do with your constituency during the campaign. (Friends of mine in Frankfurt are represented in the Bundestag by an MP from Bavaria who, when questioned by a journo, had never heard of their neighbourhood).

Whether policy is good or bad, it's certainly better if it's definite.

Ah, but Canada doesn't have PR, so it's a minority government in a House of Commons containing MPs from only four parties - fewer than the UK. I agree that proportional representation presents many other difficulties besides the endless coalition governments, with the irony of smaller parties holding a disproportionate amount of power through threats to withdraw from coalition and bring down the government. Minority governments in a first-past-the-post system, while not the ideal solution, at least tend to prevent too much harm from being done.

Oink Apr 7th 2010 7:35 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 
I like a good British general election. There's often lots of fun and merriment, tons of gaffs and guffaws. Basically people making complete tits of themselves. :thumbup:

jimf Apr 7th 2010 7:39 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8479543)
I like a good British general election. There's often lots of fun and merriment, tons of gaffs and guffaws. Basically people making complete tits of themselves. :thumbup:

Step forward John Prescott your country needs you!

Alan2005 Apr 7th 2010 7:39 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8479543)
I like a good British general election. There's often lots of fun and merriment, tons of gaffs and guffaws. Basically people making complete tits of themselves. :thumbup:

I'm quite looking forward to watching it on TV. I doubt it will beat the '97 one for entertainment - but it should be good to watch.

Oakvillian Apr 7th 2010 7:44 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by jimf (Post 8479320)
You seem to be saying a restrained Harper conservative government is a good thing for Canada?

What tyranical legislation did the liberals pass when they last had majority governments under Chretien and Martin?

Isn't the reality of the situation that the liberals haven't been strong enough to want an election since Harpers been in so they let him get on with it as long as he doesn't go too far. If the liberals were up in the polls and they though they could win it they would force an election straight away.

no, I'm saying that a Harper minority government is less dangerous for Canada than a Harper majority would be. My point was that even with a Liberal party as disfunctional as it was under Dion, when it all got too much the three opposition parties forced Harper into going to the GG rather than face a confidence motion, which had the effect of dampening the more illiberal measures in the legislative program, at least temporarily.

The UK election may well result in a hung parliament. If the Lib Dems get well into the mix and the assorted Nationalists (and Ulster Unionists) gain ground, the situation may be remarkably similar to the Canadian one, with a minority tory government able to pass moderate measures with cross-party support from the (nominally at least) centrist, leftist, and regionalist members. I would hate to suggest that Cameron should look to Harper for advice (God forbid...) but British politicians of all stripes could do worse than take a look at how Canadian parliamentary democracy has functioned (or not) over the last couple of years.

Alan2005 Apr 7th 2010 7:47 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 8479571)
no, I'm saying that a Harper minority government is less dangerous for Canada than a Harper majority would be. My point was that even with a Liberal party as disfunctional as it was under Dion, when it all got too much the three opposition parties forced Harper into going to the GG rather than face a confidence motion, which had the effect of dampening the more illiberal measures in the legislative program, at least temporarily.

The UK election may well result in a hung parliament. If the Lib Dems get well into the mix and the assorted Nationalists (and Ulster Unionists) gain ground, the situation may be remarkably similar to the Canadian one, with a minority tory government able to pass moderate measures with cross-party support from the (nominally at least) centrist, leftist, and regionalist members. I would hate to suggest that Cameron should look to Harper for advice (God forbid...) but British politicians of all stripes could do worse than take a look at how Canadian parliamentary democracy has functioned (or not) over the last couple of years.

I would expect a hung parliament in the UK to last no more than a year or two. Minority governments can't really govern - this is great if you disagree with the policies of the largest party, less so otherwise.

jimf Apr 7th 2010 7:53 am

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 8479556)
I'm quite looking forward to watching it on TV. I doubt it will beat the '97 one for entertainment - but it should be good to watch.

I saw HIGNFY on BBC Iplayer at the weekend. Nigel Farage was one of the guests and he was a decent enough sport. I thought the clip of his "who are you" speech at the european parliament was particularly funny.

JAJ Apr 7th 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Will you vote in the UK election?
 

Originally Posted by jimf (Post 8479047)
It's normal for sovereign independent nations to have foreign non residents as head of state.

The monarch of Canada, ie the Queen of Canada, is not a foreigner.


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