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Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9030942)
But we know already the ruling classes lie to the people they serve and always have done - that's not rocket science. You are right about that.
Forearmed with the knowledge, facts, whatever you want to call it from Assange, what do you want to do about it know? I honestly don't think anyone of you will go off and say "you know what, I've had enough of all this corrupt twats, I'm leaving to start my own political party because I can't trust anyone whose in power". I'm trying to make you lot think on here - you tell me it's your right to know. You tell me you can now make informed decisions. But tell me what will your actions be? It's not like you can take down these corrupt organisations yourself, is it? |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9030952)
Only in the sense that most on here seem to quote time after time The Guardian, so in a way, your are gathering your information from left-wing, liberal journalists who are putting their spin on things.
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Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
But we know already the ruling classes lie to the people they serve and always have done - that's not rocket science. You are right about that. Forearmed with the knowledge, facts, whatever you want to call it from Assange, what do you want to do about it know? I honestly don't think anyone of you will go off and say "you know what, I've had enough of all this corrupt twats, I'm leaving to start my own political party because I can't trust anyone whose in power". I'm trying to make you lot think on here - you tell me it's your right to know. You tell me you can now make informed decisions. But tell me what will your actions be? It's not like you can take down these corrupt organisations yourself, is it? Just think of the people who have been a force for change Ghandi - whose peaceful protest lead to independence for India The Suffragettes - who secured the vote for women The womens' movement - who increased sexual equality Rosa Parks & other civil rights activists - MLK etc. Corizion Acquino - Secured democracy in the Phillipines Lech Wałęsa - Solidarity Poland History is full of people and movements who have fought for democracy. But now you're saying that we shouldn't bother being agents for change? Why not give up your right to vote and the other rights that other people fought and died for - that you benefit from. I'm glad that I personally, and others do not think the way that you do. And yes I do agitate for change in my own way. And it's not always about forming your own political party. It's about being involved in your own community. It's about protesting about the things you consider to be important to protest about. |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 9030956)
I don't think you are getting it at all. It's not up to you who decides to do something about it. It's up to individuals how they act on the information they see - if they do nothing, then that in itself is a decision they have made knowing the facts. You don't get to say, well you are doing nothing therefore it should this information should be kept secret.
So really you are saying that the public can now feel smug, content in knowing but not have the tools to do anything about it. I thought with all of this coming out the point of it was meant to highlight things - to bring about change? was it not? |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9030787)
... Will the public then start proclaiming that it is their right to know details about their place of employment? What next - the sexual orientation or religous beliefs or political stance of their boss?
I don't think anyone on here has actually answered the question of what will they do now they are 'forearmed'. Put it in a different context. Say a Minister in charge of a department that was responsible for employment decided that everyone who had been unemployed for six months had to go on a compulsory job seeking course. She then awarded the contract to run the courses to a company that was owned by her husband without any competitive bidding or value for money analysis. It turns out that the contract is for $50M. Several other companies would have bid around $25M if they had been asked to quote. So I have two questions for you: a) Should the Minister be able to declare the bidding process and size of the contract a government secret? b) If she knew that the bidding process and contract would be published in the press would she have even attempted to steal $25M of public money? |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by Pretty Flowers
(Post 9030971)
I'm actually shocked that someone would say that nothing they could do could change the political system anywhere in the world. Just exactly where would we be if everyone believed that?
Just think of the people who have been a force for change Ghandi - whose peaceful protest lead to independence for India The Suffragettes - who secured the vote for women The womens' movement - who increased sexual equality Rosa Parks & other civil rights activists - MLK etc. Corizion Acquino - Secured democracy in the Phillipines Lech Wałęsa - Solidarity Poland History is full of people and movements who have fought for democracy. But now you're saying that we shouldn't bother being agents for change? Why not give up your right to vote and the other rights that other people fought and died for - that you benefit from. I'm glad that I personally, and others do not think the way that you do. And yes I do agitate for change in my own way. And it's not always about forming your own political party. It's about being involved in your own community. It's about protesting about the things you consider to be important to protest about. So, are the lilly-livered posters on here going to start following Assange and do what he asks of you - to make the world better - like Emmeline pankhursts movement then, eh? I think NOT |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by Pretty Flowers
(Post 9030971)
I'm actually shocked that someone would say that nothing they could do could change the political system anywhere in the world. Just exactly where would we be if everyone believed that?
Just think of the people who have been a force for change Ghandi - whose peaceful protest lead to independence for India The Suffragettes - who secured the vote for women The womens' movement - who increased sexual equality Rosa Parks & other civil rights activists - MLK etc. Corizion Acquino - Secured democracy in the PhillipinesLech Wałęsa - Solidarity Poland History is full of people and movements who have fought for democracy. But now you're saying that we shouldn't bother being agents for change? Why not give up your right to vote and the other rights that other people fought and died for - that you benefit from. I'm glad that I personally, and others do not think the way that you do. And yes I do agitate for change in my own way. And it's not always about forming your own political party. It's about being involved in your own community. It's about protesting about the things you consider to be important to protest about. |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9031000)
Ermm hang on here lady, don't talk about Emmeline pankhurst to me! (at least she had some balls unlike the lilly-livered jibberish that most on here are spouting out and won't do JACK SHIT about). She was a great woman who did bring about change - because she decided she had enough of the bollocks, so got off her arse and did something about it - She was an activist and took herself and other suffragetes off to different countries to talk to Women about their rights. She made it better for Women - how is Assange going to make it better for YOU
So, are the lilly-livered posters on here going to start following Assange and do what he asks of you - to make the world better - like Emmeline pankhursts movement then, eh? I think NOT |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by Pretty Flowers
(Post 9030971)
I'm actually shocked that someone would say that nothing they could do could change the political system anywhere in the world. Just exactly where would we be if everyone believed that?
Just think of the people who have been a force for change Ghandi - whose peaceful protest lead to independence for India The Suffragettes - who secured the vote for women The womens' movement - who increased sexual equality Rosa Parks & other civil rights activists - MLK etc. Corizion Acquino - Secured democracy in the Phillipines Lech Wałęsa - Solidarity Poland History is full of people and movements who have fought for democracy. But now you're saying that we shouldn't bother being agents for change? Why not give up your right to vote and the other rights that other people fought and died for - that you benefit from. I'm glad that I personally, and others do not think the way that you do. And yes I do agitate for change in my own way. And it's not always about forming your own political party. It's about being involved in your own community. It's about protesting about the things you consider to be important to protest about. |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9031017)
Ermm, hang on how do you know how I think anyway, and who and what I stick up for in my community and my past countries communities. To base some kind of opinion about what my ethics and morals are just from a post on here is pretty naive, wouldnèt you say.
If you don't are you trolling or playing devil's advocate - or do you feel caught out by some examples of people who have made changes in their society? I wasn't making any comment about your morals and values. I actually was talking about my own, which are to care about government corruption, to want to know what really is going on in the world, and based on that information to try to do something about it. These leaks give concrete evidence about the way that the US government has lied, both to its own citizens and to the rest of the world. There's a reason for the statement 'knowledge is power' |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9031000)
She made it better for Women - how is Assange going to make it better for YOU
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Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by Pretty Flowers
(Post 9031027)
You're right, I don't know what you think, I can only go on what you said in this thread. Based on your diatribe about how no one ever does anything and therefore this information should be kept secret, I think it's reasonable to assume that this is the way that you think.
If you don't are you trolling or playing devil's advocate - or do you feel caught out by some examples of people who have made changes in their society? I wasn't making any comment about your morals and values. I actually was talking about my own, which are to care about government corruption, to want to know what really is going on in the world, and based on that information to try to do something about it. These leaks give concrete evidence about the way that the US government has lied, both to its own citizens and to the rest of the world. There's a reason for the statement 'knowledge is power' Are you trying to play freud with me? so now based on what I said you are assuming that I feel caught out? bullshit lady, why not ask me what achievements I've made in my past homelands and in my own community by standing up to the authorities with no-ones help or backing. OH wait, you probably couldn't have that conception that maybe someone like me has actually done some good in the world with those in need. |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9031044)
When have I said that?
Are you trying to play freud with me? so now based on what I said you are assuming that I feel caught out? bullshit lady, why not ask me what achievements I've made in my past homelands and in my own community. OH wait, you probably couldn't have that conception that maybe someone like me has actually done some good in the world with those in need. You have stated that these wikileaks should not have happened. Your reasoning has been that it won't make any difference because people won't do anything about it. If this isn't your position, could you clarify it? |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by greentea3
(Post 9031044)
When have I said that?
Are you trying to play freud with me? so now based on what I said you are assuming that I feel caught out? bullshit lady, why not ask me what achievements I've made in my past homelands and in my own community by standing up to the authorities with no-ones help or backing. OH wait, you probably couldn't have that conception that maybe someone like me has actually done some good in the world with those in need. |
Re: Wikileaks: Australia FM blames US, not Julian Assange
Originally Posted by Pretty Flowers
(Post 9031058)
Really? But I am surprised by your anger....
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