Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
Oct 5th 2010, 6:24 pm
#46
Lowering the tone
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
I don't normally get into the position of defending the payment of benefits, but here goes....
The benefit system will top up low incomes whether or not there is a minimum wage. The wage and benefit issues are separate. Wage is determined by the market and benefit level determined by the government of the day as elected by the people.
Community service - if a genuine service is needed then there should be a job in place to provide that service already. Otherwise it smacks of something like detention at school - stay behind for an hour picking up litter for breaking some rule. If you've lost your job ad are genuinely looking for work it doesn't help to have to go and do the same sorts of things people do when they've just missed a prison sentence.
The benefit system will top up low incomes whether or not there is a minimum wage. The wage and benefit issues are separate. Wage is determined by the market and benefit level determined by the government of the day as elected by the people.
Community service - if a genuine service is needed then there should be a job in place to provide that service already. Otherwise it smacks of something like detention at school - stay behind for an hour picking up litter for breaking some rule. If you've lost your job ad are genuinely looking for work it doesn't help to have to go and do the same sorts of things people do when they've just missed a prison sentence.
One man's "brood of lazy, sponging layabouts" is another man's "hard-working family in tough times."
Perhaps that answers the question posed in the thread title.
Last edited by Jingsamichty; Oct 5th 2010 at 6:26 pm.
Oct 5th 2010, 6:46 pm
#47
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
So there we have it... at the first suggestion of cutting benefits, or of making people actually contribute something in return, the typical reaction is one of resistance.
One man's "brood of lazy, sponging layabouts" is another man's "hard-working family in tough times."
Perhaps that answers the question posed in the thread title.
One man's "brood of lazy, sponging layabouts" is another man's "hard-working family in tough times."
Perhaps that answers the question posed in the thread title.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lion-year.html
Oct 5th 2010, 7:02 pm
#48
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
So there we have it... at the first suggestion of cutting benefits, or of making people actually contribute something in return, the typical reaction is one of resistance.
One man's "brood of lazy, sponging layabouts" is another man's "hard-working family in tough times."
Perhaps that answers the question posed in the thread title.
One man's "brood of lazy, sponging layabouts" is another man's "hard-working family in tough times."
Perhaps that answers the question posed in the thread title.
There are also various tax schemes that remove the need for benefits - a citizens wage for instance which covers basic subsistence living and no more. Everyone gets it, and then you pay tax on what you earn above that. Not sure if I agree with this or not, but it's one of those ideas I read about on occasion.
Oct 5th 2010, 8:02 pm
#49
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
BUT, my BIG problem is that the new changes will penalise the family with the lower income after tax. This does not make any sense at all. As many have said, at these income levels neither family (assuming that they haven't bred like rabbits) should need the allowance, but as long as it is being paid then the only fair way is to base it upon total family income. I suspect that the new government just can't be bothered to implement anything that makes those who work for the Inland Revenue work a bit harder
Oct 5th 2010, 8:20 pm
#50
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
I certainly don't.
It's the Government's role to raise sufficient taxes in an efficient manner, not to ensure that Mr. 45k pays the same amount of tax as Mr 22k and Mrs 23k.
Tax Revenues are about "Money In to UK plc", and quite rightly should be based on actual money earned by individuals, regardless of their family circumstances.
It's the Government's role to raise sufficient taxes in an efficient manner, not to ensure that Mr. 45k pays the same amount of tax as Mr 22k and Mrs 23k.
Tax Revenues are about "Money In to UK plc", and quite rightly should be based on actual money earned by individuals, regardless of their family circumstances.
I agree with this and said so above.
Oct 5th 2010, 10:24 pm
#51
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
Reading this it either sounds a poorly thought out mistake or a concession to the liberals which then gives them the grounds to really sort out the benefits system. I hope its the latter but I have my doubts.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...admits-PM.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...admits-PM.html
Oct 5th 2010, 11:39 pm
#52
Oscar nominated
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
From Newsbiscuit
Middle-class families to strike over child benefit cuts
Britain is bracing itself for a Winter of Discontent after the middle class last night balloted its members over industrial action to protest at the scrapping of child benefit for higher-rate taxpayers. A ‘yes’ vote could see mass walkouts by middle-class families as early as November, with experts warning such a move could cripple vital public services such as Parent Teacher Association fetes and the continued administration of the Home Counties dinner party circuit.
‘I wasn’t at all bothered by the spending cuts before, but now I’m completely behind the ‘No to the Cuts’ campaign,’ said Matthew Singleton, a chartered accountant from Surrey. ‘We were going to have a fortnight in Florida over Christmas, but now it looks as if we’ll only be able to stretch to 10 days. We may even have to downsize my wife’s car from a Mercedes to a VW. The Tories say they’re pro-family, but try telling that to my little Anton and Tamara when they roll up at prep school in a second-rate German MPV.’
All across the UK solicitors and dentists are preparing to take to the streets and send a clear message to the government by foregoing their weekend games of squash at the sports club. ‘I would have gone on strike during the week,’ said Jasmine Egerton, a creative consultant from Hertfordshire, ‘but that would have been cutting off my nose to spite my face. I can make my point more effectively by withdrawing my daughter from piano lessons at the weekend and insisting she works to rule with her tennis coach.’
The planned protests have even attracted support from celebrity families who will themselves be hit by the cuts. ‘We was thinking about moving back to England,’ tweeted David Beckham yesterday. ‘With all our kids we’d have done quite nicely from child benefit, but now it’s been scrapped I don’t think we’ll bother.’
But for many middle-class families, the cuts have left them feeling conflicted. ‘I understand that we’re better off than some people, but couldn’t they cut other public spending first? It just makes me sick to see so much waste in the system. I mean, the fact that my nanny gets working tax credit on top of her minimum wage is just scandalous. I’ve a good mind to sell her back to those Liberian traffickers.’
Britain is bracing itself for a Winter of Discontent after the middle class last night balloted its members over industrial action to protest at the scrapping of child benefit for higher-rate taxpayers. A ‘yes’ vote could see mass walkouts by middle-class families as early as November, with experts warning such a move could cripple vital public services such as Parent Teacher Association fetes and the continued administration of the Home Counties dinner party circuit.
‘I wasn’t at all bothered by the spending cuts before, but now I’m completely behind the ‘No to the Cuts’ campaign,’ said Matthew Singleton, a chartered accountant from Surrey. ‘We were going to have a fortnight in Florida over Christmas, but now it looks as if we’ll only be able to stretch to 10 days. We may even have to downsize my wife’s car from a Mercedes to a VW. The Tories say they’re pro-family, but try telling that to my little Anton and Tamara when they roll up at prep school in a second-rate German MPV.’
All across the UK solicitors and dentists are preparing to take to the streets and send a clear message to the government by foregoing their weekend games of squash at the sports club. ‘I would have gone on strike during the week,’ said Jasmine Egerton, a creative consultant from Hertfordshire, ‘but that would have been cutting off my nose to spite my face. I can make my point more effectively by withdrawing my daughter from piano lessons at the weekend and insisting she works to rule with her tennis coach.’
The planned protests have even attracted support from celebrity families who will themselves be hit by the cuts. ‘We was thinking about moving back to England,’ tweeted David Beckham yesterday. ‘With all our kids we’d have done quite nicely from child benefit, but now it’s been scrapped I don’t think we’ll bother.’
But for many middle-class families, the cuts have left them feeling conflicted. ‘I understand that we’re better off than some people, but couldn’t they cut other public spending first? It just makes me sick to see so much waste in the system. I mean, the fact that my nanny gets working tax credit on top of her minimum wage is just scandalous. I’ve a good mind to sell her back to those Liberian traffickers.’
Oct 5th 2010, 11:48 pm
#53
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
Reading this it either sounds a poorly thought out mistake or a concession to the liberals which then gives them the grounds to really sort out the benefits system. I hope its the latter but I have my doubts.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...admits-PM.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...admits-PM.html
Oct 6th 2010, 2:51 am
#54
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
I think they've already denounced it as an attack on children and hard working families etc etc - thats what the one married to Ed Balls said anyway.
Last edited by jimf; Oct 6th 2010 at 2:54 am.
Oct 6th 2010, 12:10 pm
#55
Happy in NB
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
I thought Child Benefit was used to channel some money to the mothers because in the time it was created most women stayed at home to look after the household. The men in their lives gave them housekeeping money and many women were cash starved.
It seems obvious to me a solution would be to make the taxation a household rather than individual evaluation and then review benefit entitlement against the income (all in the same process). Sounds like something we do here
It seems obvious to me a solution would be to make the taxation a household rather than individual evaluation and then review benefit entitlement against the income (all in the same process). Sounds like something we do here
Oct 6th 2010, 1:46 pm
#56
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Oct 6th 2010, 7:50 pm
#57
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Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
You'd think the magazine has paid her to make all of this up because in the real world it just couldn't be true.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-BOOB-JOB.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-BOOB-JOB.html
Oct 6th 2010, 9:48 pm
#58
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