Jingsamichty

The government has made it unfeasible for most transactions between people to remain unrecorded, whether that's selling a car or being employed. Even buying a slice of pizza has to go through somebody's books. That is good protectionism by the government.

If 2 people are able and willing to transact totally off-the-record, with no bookkeeping, what business is it of the government - and does it make a difference it it was $10 or $10m?

DaveLovesDee

Because the government taxes us on what we earn, and what we spend. So we get taxed twice. Our employers also get taxed for employing us, hence government loses out on two of the three ways if someone works illegally. If these workers then buy things through the black market (cigarettes, booze, etc), the government also loses the third source of revenue.

JonboyE

Are these two people ever going to call the police if they are robbed? Will they go and see a doctor when they are ill? Will they send their children to school? Will they ever drive on a road? Will they ever take any notice of the weather forecast?

Maybe if they lived in caves all their lives and never took advantage of anything that was paid for by public finance they might have a point.

Otherwise they are just freeloaders.

Joe_Sleepy

Depends on what they do. If they'll re-roof my house & knock off the difference I'd have to wait until they finished before I grassed them up & wrecked their lives for nothing other than spite.
If they are yoga instructors I'd dob them in immediately..

JonboyE

This is not aimed at you, more a general you, but ...

If you pay the roofers $10,000 in cash to avoid the tax what is there to stop the roofing company sending you another bill for $10,000 plus the taxes. When you, obviously, don't pay it they slap a lien on your house.

You can't prove you have already paid $10,000 so the only way to get the lien removed is to pay the bill again including the taxes.

The answer is that there is nothing to stop the roofing company doing this. I know because I have seen it happen.

You also have to wonder how likely the company will be to stand behind their workmanship when the roof starts leaking.

Edit to add: If the contractor is not declaring the income for tax purposes you can bet your boots he is not declaring it to the workers compensation board. If one of his workers falls off your roof you could be on the hook for a multi-million dollar medical and wage loss claim.

cneldred

Can someone explain how that fits in with the HST in Ontario then?

Joe_Sleepy

A very valid point! The next time I need a new roof I'll pay the roofers through the books & pay cash for the yoga lessons.. I just hope the yoga teacher knows their stuff or I really will be in a pickle...

Whilst we're on the subject, I paid cash for some duck eggs at the Farmers' Market last weekend, I think it was about four bucks. Since this change of heart I feel I should track the woman down & ensure she declared it as earnings...

Why oh why do we have cash.?.. It makes everything so complicated. Perhaps Nova Scotia could build on the idea of the NSLC & institute something along the lines of a NSCFAFE (Nova Scotia Corporation For Absolutely F*****g Everything), they could then track every transaction province wide & make the relevant deductions at source..

As a governmental body they will be far better equipped to do this in a cost effective way, thus saving the taxpayers any extra financial burden..

Instead of using cash (as it's so tricky to monitor) we could use some kind of token that represents cash, they could be made of cardboard or perhaps paper or even metal (for longevity) & could each have a special number printed on them to allow for tracking (not the metal ones obviously, printing anything on them would make them look tacky & childish).. Just a thought..

Almost Canadian

I have no idea whether this is a Federal or Provincial issue. If it is Federal, vote for the candidate that promises to scrap it at the next election, ditto for the Provincial election - simple

Exilelass

England doesn't have a Parliament.

Exilelass

The reason we have cash is because the barter/kind system didn't work. We ran out of options, so we started up the metal/cardboard system.

Almost Canadian

It is the UK Parliament or whatever you wish to choose to call it, the one situated in Westminster. I appreciate that, on its own, England does not have a Parliament - semantics to say the least. You have made such comments before.

The Parliament in England cannot bind its successors.

Chookie

Actually you can hang laundry out to dry in Calgary... I once phoned the city to check, and the only restriction is that you cannot hang it out the front of your house. In the back yard is fine apparently...

It is just that most people don't bother.

As for the person working illegally/not paying taxes etc - I am not sure what I would do. It would probably depend on the circumstances.

if I knew exactly who it was, where he was working, what he was doing then yes I would prob report him. If I only knew a tiny bit - overheard him bragging about it or it was hearsay that someone was working illegally for example, then I doubt I would bother.

The4BellsLondon

so - what did you do??

louise033

I haven't done anything, I just wondered what everyone else would do!

triumphguy

Working in the underground economy may be less beneficial than paying taxes in the long run:

Off the top of my head -

One problem with paying under the table to re-roof your house (for instance) is that the poor bloody workers may also be paid under the table, and if they slipped and were injured and unable to work they couldn't claim compensation under the WCB.

The one doing the work (and/or his/her erstwhile employer) will have made no CPP contributions on the income and this may adversely affect their retirement.

Many government programs are only available to people and businesses who report their income.

On the other hand we have legal right to pay the lowest amount of taxes legally possible - that's why being self employed is advantageous!

However, even that has its downside - try getting a mortgage when you've maxed out all your write offs!