What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I just read this on wiki:
I'm better qualified than I thought. :rofl:

I remember hearing that some teachers considered grade 2 CSE was equal to an O level but that's it.

In reality all the careers sessions, all the careers literature ever given to us at school and all the job ads made reference to O levels needed for some jobs and then other jobs for CSE.

I remember having information about printing employment and that actually broke down the CSE grades for the particular jobs.

I never saw any jobs advertised that needed a grade of O level, just the fact that an O level (or however many) was obtained. But not having any got any O levels, maybe I didn't pay that much attention if it wasn't relevant. But if job ads said O levels or CSE grades 1-3, I think I'd have noticed.

I actually got taken on in the Civil Service as a casual straight from school in 1973 with permanent employment dependent on my CSE exams resulting in two grade 1s as the equivalent to the 2 O levels normally needed for that job when the results came through. I didn't get them.

But I did get three CSE passes at grade 2 and two at grade 3, so according to wiki I did really get 5 O levels, albeit at the lower levels, but passes nonetheless.

The Civil Service certainly didn't recognise that and I had to take their own exam (equivalent to 2 Os) to be made permanent and then, later, another exam equal to 5 Os to get to the next grade.

Anyone else have CSE experiences from back then?

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I vaguely remember CSEs ;), & that a grade 1 was supposed to be the equivalent of a O level pass. If I recall correctly, a pass at O level was A, B, or C grade; D & E were fails. I also vaguely recall CSEs being "looked down on" in certain circles :(.

(I have a physics CSE - grade 2, 'cos my school didn't like "bad" grades messing up its nice record of no fails & there was no way I could have passed a science O level :sneaky: I passed a stupidly large number of O levels which have been of no earthly use since! ).

I vaguely recall a couple of friends who got decent results at CSEs retaking some subjects at O level in order to go on to A levels & university, &/or doing extra exams (civil service & banks, I think) in the workplace.

I don't recall job ads requiring specific grades, just O level/CSE, & sometimes specifying how many of each or either.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Thats what I remember (I did O levels and CSEs in the early 80s).
CSE Grade 1 was the equivalent of a Pass at O Level.
An O Level Pass was a Grade A, B or C. D and E were fails. And if you were seriously bad and had spent even more time bunking off to go to the pub than I did the you got a U or Unclassified!

A Levels were the same, A B and C were passes.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I'd forgotten about the 'U' grade!

It seems to me that at A level, grades A to E were officially all passes, but only A to C were actually considered as such for most practical purposes. (however, Oxford/Cambridge used to have their own entry procedures & would offer places with the requirement of 2 E grades).

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I did O levels graded 1 to 6 as passes. CSE grades 3 and above were considered O levels. A levels were passes at A to D, E was an O level equivalent. AO levels were 1 to 6. This was the Cambridge Exam Board.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Ha. Physics was one of my grade 2s. I got a grade 3 for Chemistry too. Physics was entirely down to a change of teacher who made a previously dull class interesting.

Yep that's as wiki has it. Just not the Civil Service. Not that their exam was difficult, it would have been nice if they just made me permanent without it.

I also applied for a job with the then South West Electricity Board and they didn't recognise my "five O levels" either.

I fancied the idea of journalism too - but at the careers sessions held, 'proper' O levels was stated an absolute minimum.

Is there someone I can sue? :rofl:

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

My brother had the same problem so mum and he just registered to sit English O level at the college. No classes attended and they both passed of course.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I was in the first year of the comprehensive system. The school I went to had been a secondary modern before it was combined with the former grammar school on the same campus, to create a "comprehensive" school.

Comprehensive my arse. We were streamed the same way as we would have been under the old system. The pupils on the CSE path were regarded as knuckle-draggers, including by the teachers.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I got a grade U, unclassified failure, in CSE French.

Me fais chier, that did.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Ich did geslightliert better auf deutch mit ein CSE grade zwei. But my formative experience of the german language came from reading "Warlord" as a kid. Apparently "Die Englander scum" and "Achtung Spitfeur" weren't phrases that there was a lot of call for in CSE german in the mid 80's.;)

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

M'a fait chier, unless of course your are still narked (me fait chier)

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

See. Buggered tenses. That's why I failed.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I got an E for French. I was delighted as I got an F for my mock!

Football and Love are the only true languages a man needs.

Well alcohol too.....

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Nobody else does.

When I started working for the Canadian guvmint (nearly 20 years ago!), I thought I had better brush-up on my French and dug out my Bescherelle (the tense bible) to remind myself of the several hundred French tenses.

My boss, a highly educated franco (and 3-time Canadian ambassador), told me not to bother because most francos only know about five anyway.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Two Es was just to qualify for a grant. My offer from Oxford, like a couple of my friends', was unconditional, though I already had two A-levels when I applied, so it was kind of pointless :).

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

The CSE was introduced in 1965 and like many post–war educ. policies it was designed to soak up and deflect the growing working class demand for higher education. Higher education was at the time, a severely rationed commodity so the CSE gave pupils and their parents the style and impression of o-level and a-level qualifications without leading a pathway towards HE participation. One of Thatcher’s main goals was to reform the education system, but it took until ten years into her administration that GSCE’s came into universal operation. Whatever you think about Thatcher, whatever her ideological concerns were, her educational reforms had a marked effect of democratizing education, especially for working class children.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Not so in all boroughs. I know of a girl who was given a place at Cambridge and told to forget about A levels and to go travelling.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I have a CSE in typing. Also an Army training certificate in switchboard operation.

I am old. :(

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I'm the same as you in this regard.

Didn't get streamed into the CSE group but didn't pay attention in the O level stream either, so rummaged together 4 O levels at A-C, two A levels in French and Law. I got a U for Maths! That stigma stays with me to this day. :rofl:

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I missed this one.

We were streamed but there was still a mix in some lessons. The overwhelming majority were CSE so there was no looking down on the norm. That was reserved for a much smaller sub group.

The big puzzle for me was that once the standard classes were sorted, there were three other subjects. Latin - for the brainy ones who were in the O level classes; Ancient Civilisation for the next lot and Extra English which is maybe self explanatory.

The puzzle was me being in the Latin one when I was CSE for everything else.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

That would make sense, far too long ago for me to actually remember ;). I always assumed it was Oxbridge thumbing its nose at having to conformed to the standardised Uni entry system (UCCA??).

The joke at the time, amongst my peers, was that the only one of us who got a place at Oxford, didn't qualify for anywhere else ;)!!

Ditto 2 of my classmates. One of whom managed an A in Latin, failed 2/5 of her CSEs, but then went on to a rather illustrious career in the FCO - probably the most successful person of any of my year :).

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Latin was an odd one.

Our year was split into eight forms (2A1 to 2B4). A1-A3 were the kids who probably would have gone to grammar school. My form (A1) was the only one doing Latin. None of us wanted to but we had to because it meant we could sit English O-level a year early. The annoying bit was that we had to continue Latin after we'd done the English. I don't think many of us got good grades in the Latin O-level. We didn't give a stuff and had better ways to spend our revision time.

I think my Latin grade was Z.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

[thread swerve]
'Twas indeed. I can't for the life of me remember why I opted for it (I have a sneaky suspicion the reasoning may have involved bloodymindedness &/or avoiding some other subject where I hated the teacher), however, I ended up loving it :sneaky:.

Enough so that I did it for A level too, where I achieved an ignominious E after sitting the final paper in the afternoon following a funeral & wake where my headmistress & Latin teacher plied me with "just another glass" for luck. I had to be woken up during the exam, several times, by the invigilator... :lol:
[/thread swerve].

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

The only way I could drop Latin after the first year was to replace it with Spanish or German. No way to learn a language, really, when I was already way behind the others in French having started it much later after the school change.

The annoying thing was I caught up in French thanks to one of those strict teachers (who later eases up) who kept you in to do homework you didn't do when you should have, but you did it.
Me and another kid got switched to a higher group but the teacher there was one of those softies with no control and the class just messed around and I went backwards. Got a grade 5 in the end :eek:
I reckon I'd have got a grade 3 or better had I not been moved.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I was also in the first year of comprehensive education but the school I went to was the former grammar school. They might have changed the system but they forgot to change the teaching staff who treated the working class kids with obvious distaste.

I am pretty sure that they didn't "do" CSEs at that school. In the competitive world that was grammar school teaching no master wanted failures in their class so anyone who was not expected to pass O levels was sent to the former Secondary Modern to bash metal or saw some wood until it was time to take their CSEs.

We also took Latin. I remember one exam where we had to write an essay. We stared with a mark of 100 they took a mark off for every word we got wrong. When my paper was down to zero they decided to give me a mark for every word I got right. I got 11%. I was allowed to quietly drop Latin.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Yeah, the two who got the best A-level results in our school didn't need them, as they already had 2E or lower offers from Oxford and Cambridge :).

Though some kids did seem to slack off once they had easy offers in place.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

We had a choice of Latin or German, if you failed Latin in the 2nd year you webpnt into the class that did Cookery. Bring seen with a wicker basket of ingredients meant you were thick.

We weren't streamed at school but the girls who spoke naicely and whose daddies were in the professions were all in one class and they had the best teachers. What a coincidence.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I got chucked out of Cookery (AKA Home Economics) class before the end of the first term, for making the teacher cry :). Latin had nothing to do with that :rofl:

That sounds familiar!!! :eek:

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

We we at the same school ;)

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I am wondering ... ;)

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Ditto. I moved from an old grammar into a brand new comprehensive school. We were in the top two classes...taught by the same grammar school teaches as we had before. The children from the secondary schools went into the other classes...taught by their old teachers.

Most of the grammar school children went into 6th form...most of the others left school at 16.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Did you take up the offer?

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Bull. Her major contribution as Minister of Education was removing the free milk.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Life is strange: those who achieved the best A level results in my lot were rejected by Oxford/Cambridge ;).

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

As a minister maybe but as PM it was a different matter. The milk is a red herring, there are far better ways to get good nutrition into a child's diet. Plus the classrooms had all kinds harmful bacteria on the desks, floors and big stinking cloths because of spillage. Thatcher brought transparency, accountability and increased the level of service and professionalism to state education. Schools before were often demeaning and harmful places, no more than educational dustbins for working class children. State schools often failed these children, children who entered adulthood branded as failures, state institutions that were set up to produce a tiny elite while undermining the potential of large swathes of the population. If it wasn’t for the reforms in the 1980s and 1990s that would still be largely the case. I'm not suggesting Thatcher was a champion of the working class, in fact I find many of her policies despicable and unnecessarily harsh but imo many of the changes in public education produced profound advancements and benefits.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Sounds very familiar.

I went to school in Brighton, on a campus that (then) comprised an infant/primary school (a distinct infant school was built a bit later), a secondary modern and two grammar schools (one per gender).

The change saw the SM become a comprehensive, the girly grammar a girly comprehensive and the male one a sixth form.

Quite a few of my teachers at my comprehensive were straight out of the grammar schools. They did not teach the B-stream!

The schools still exist. I think they have over 6,000 pupils between them. The campus should be a bit crowded but it isn't. It covers 70 acres in a nice part of town and the schools are dotted around the edges. There is an awful lot of green between them. Looking back, I was quite lucky to spend 13 years there.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Sounds nice...my school was surrounded by council estates.

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

One thing that has struck me, on reflection, was that there was an almost total absence of non-white, non-Christian people in the three schools I went to.

If memory serves, there was one teacher from India, two Hindus, a Sikh, an Asian-Ugandan refugee, an African and a kid from Antigua. And one Jew.

That's spread over 13 years.

I wonder if things are different now?

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

Oink for Thatcher. Yay. ;)

Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?
 

I grew up in Sheffield...which at the time was predominantly white Protestant. I can't remember anyone at the schools I went to being other than that. There were very few Catholics in the area I lived...just as well as we weren't allowed to mix with them. :blink: My mum was appalled when I met my husband (his surname gave him away)...please don't tell me he's a Catholic and an Irish Catholic. :lol: 30 years later when she was close to death...she finally admitted I had married a good man.

Very different times