Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Just came across this today: Petition urges restrictions on foreign investors buying Vancouver homes | CTV News

Sign here if you are interested: https://www.change.org/p/premier-chr...ket/u/10324691

6400 signatures so far!

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

So 6400 racists then :lol:

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

:)

The comments really show the anguish of many residents

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

As much as foreign investment in property makes house prices expensive, which sucks. If its stopped it would put me and many others with skilled trades out of a job imo as work would slow down.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Does anyone else find it ironic this petition is posted on an immigration board :lol:

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

yes indeedy :lol:


especially as the "immigrant' owners being targeted are easily visible minorities

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Restrictions are not the way to go. Better to influence vacancy issues and overseas investment returns through more aggressive property tax.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

nothing will happen ...............

you can't go all out to attract "foreign investment", and then force the people who have bought to sell their investment


Yes, it is annoying to see so-called empty houses,

yes, it must be annoying to be unable to buy a house because the prices have risen so high, but a large part of the house price is due to the enormous increase in the value of the land because Vancouver has no land to develop outwards.

I have no idea what the answer is ........... but I'm pretty sure it isn't a petition to restrict foreign investment or take away property from foreign investors. Rspecially when it is visible minorities that are being targeted.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Foreign investment doesn't mean immigrant, I would not have an issue with higher tax rates or something for those who are simply buying with no intention to ever live here.

Wouldn't agree with restrictions on actual immigrants intending to move or have moved to Canada, while suppose it could technically be called foreign investment initially, I don't consider it that way since the person is also investing their time to Canada by living and working here.



But realistically, doubt it would solve any issues, housing in Vancouver will likely never return to a point an average income household can buy, and probably see a lot more people renting for life.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Which would mean that Vancouver becomes like so many European cities, where people live in rented apartments all their lives.

Several financial advisors have been suggesting that retired people in Vancouver who are looking at downsizing, should rent not buy a condo ro apartment

They've crunched the figures, and suggest that the annual maintenance costs, taxes, etc plus what seem to be quite regular "assessments" for repairs could become a burden as one gets older and is trying to live on a pension.

By renting, the retired person is able to put the money from the house sale into a RRIF or other plan, and live on a monthly draw from that plus whatever other pension(s) they might have ............. and not suddenly be faced with big money worries.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Aren't they? Purchase of property in Australia, for example, is restricted to those with PR status, unless you have $5m or more to invest - would a similar rule in BC slow down property inflation on the west coast?

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I'd only buy a condo if it was going to lead to a house potentially in the future, but these days condos and houses are so high, buying a condo probably won't do much to get into a house...

I look at all the taxes, strata fees and such condo owners have to pay + the taxes, and buying a condo can end up costing more then just renting it and not bothering with paying anything but rent directly.

I also wouldn't want to be tied to a building for 10 or 20 or 30 years however long it would take to pay off, at least when renting condos or apartments, you can move easier if the building goes down hill.


Where we are condos do not do well value wise over time, so I see no point to buying one.


I'd consider a town house though, since they seem to go in value still.

But not owning the land itself is a big turn off for me and owning, I don't want to own a part of a building and be told what to do still like I am renting but not really renting..

And the biggest reason I want to own is for a yard and not gonna happen with a condo....:rofl:

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

well, you are subject to at least as many rules when you own a condo or strata as when you rent an apartment .................. they all have councils, all owners are on the council, the council sets the rules with the approval of the owners, and sets new rates for fees, maintenance etc etc.


We have a friend who lives in a condo building for over 55's. Small cats and dogs allowed. She went to the strata council meeting 2 weeks ago ............. and said it was one of the worst experiences of her life, watching all the infighting, back stabbing, etc etc!

She's only been living in that building for 10 years, plus 3 years before that in another condo building.


There can even be controls on having visitors to stay ....... and I don't just mean children.

My niece owned a 2 bedroom condo in Abbotsford. She had just moved in when her sister came to visit from England, a slightly longer than usual 3-4 week stay, but with the intention of helping to re-paint the unit. Within 2 hours of sister arriving, the secretary of the condo council was knocking on the door wanting to know who this person was and how long she would be staying! She added a reminder that there was a limit on visits.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Interesting. However, the problem with restrictions is that they will slow down actual development, which in turn will impact the local economy through loss of jobs and foreign investment. If instead you make property expensive to hold vacant, rental supply increases and if sufficient, would exert downward pressure on property values (as potential buyers would find renting a sufficiently attractive alternative).

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

It's funny to read this as I'm currently looking to move because my room mate & I are currently fighting due to her boyfriend staying over at ours more than I'm comfortable with. I wonder if she's aware of this too. XD

The reality for me is I can't afford to live alone, and living with other people is hell. Hearing that I'll probably never be able to live in a place where I can do what I want to is pretty depressing. I'll be living in beige coloured basement suites the rest of my life, I guess. XD

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Strata councils are why I dislike condos. They can be worse then any landlord, and some even have move in and move out fee's. If I am going to own, I don't want to deal with a mini-political system and BS politics.

I lived in a strata condo once as a renter, I got a $20 fine because I *gasp* left a glass on a window sill and this was apparently against the rules as nothing was allowed on the window sills, they didn't even allow patio furniture on the patios, wtf is the purpose of having a patio then?

We are in dedicated rentals, so no strata and the landlord is a not for profit community based service provider so they are pretty understanding.

Their madate is to provide rent a certain % below market average, so this year it's 850 which is pretty good as most 1 bedrooms are 1,200+ now.

They also have 60 dedicated BC housing units.

Both types have a wait list, 20 or so for regular apartments, and over 100 for BC Housing units. Average year 2-3 people leave the complex, won't find anything cheaper in town.

Our wait list is nothing compared to Vancouver, last I heard the BC Housing list there was years long with extenstive waits of many years.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Oh FFS there are as many different strata councils as there are people.

IMO, stratas with a high level of retirees can be the worst for lame rules, because there are a lot of bored people with time on their hands to be nosey. But closer in, stratas with a higher % of young people will be totally different. Like any purchase, you do your homework. YOu read the strata minutes - they should give a good idea of what that culture of the strata is like.

I've lived in 2 stratas and there were no ridiculous rules about how long a visitor can stay, etc. etc. The second one I lived in was mainly made up of young families - no one had time for that kind of petty bs. We had a property manager and we left them to it.

Strata is FINE, jsut do your homework and ignore the doomers.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

and allegedy it's easy to find ways around that.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Good point.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Yes there are, but I still see no value or point in owning a condo. Their values don't go up quick enough if at all, and provide no benefit over renting in my view.

It's the fees I don't like, adding several hundred a month on top of mortgage, may as well rent if you have to live in a condo and have flexibility.

We are priced out of condos as well, but I fail to see how buying one leads to being able to buy a house if the values of condos do not go up.

Whole point of owning is for the land to have space, and to have things you can't have in a condo.

If someone can explain how condos lead to a house and a starting point for a 40 something year old, I am open ears. (we would be early to mid 40's at the earliest if the time ever came.)

I personally stratas and don't want to have to deal with them, you never really know what they will turn into after moving in years down the line.

Mortgage + taxes + starta seems to be higher then just renting the same place if the only estimators are reliably accurate.


If our income ever went up to a level a condo was possible, I'd consider it if it led to a house down the road.

Just don't know if that is feasible as a 40 something with sufficient time to wait out an increase in value of condo to a point it would sell for enough to provide the necessary money needed for a house.

I just don't want to get stuck with a condo I don't want long term and not able to leave because it can't sell for enough.

For us we are looking for a home, not an investment since we would likely be dead before it was even technically ours. Doubtful I'd outlive the mortgage.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I don't agree, it's swings and roundabouts. right NOW houses are far more $$ than condos but that won't last forever. There was a point not that long ago that condos were more sought after than detached homes, esp. townhomes. it all depends what the market is after.

you can't assume what's happening now will last forever.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I am going by the last 5 years, and real estate agents my wife knows and her mom's experience with her condo which sold for less in 2013 then she bought it for brand new. Even the developers are skipping building new condos, all the new housing development will be townhomes and houses, but 300,000+ for a town home is out of reach as well.

Housing is just to flipping exspensive.

We could never own a house in Vancouver, so not even planning nor considering that, its never going to happen..lol

The tricky part is where in BC can one get affordable houses and a job?

I figure if we update our education a bit, we can probably at most make 20-23 per hour max.

I was talking about the Squamish market, no chance of owning a home in Vancouver region unless way out east, but it's too far from employment opportunities out that far.

The island other then Victoria is probably our best bet.


These are the new developments being built.

http://crumpitwoods.com/

Single family homes on lots.

These townhomes which I actually do like and would buy one if we could, I like the layout and location.

http://targethomes.build/current.html

The developer building the above is also going to build single family homes.

Across from where we live someone else is planning to build town homes on a lot currently hosting a single family home.


I think for this market condos are dead. People moving here want houses and town homes and move here to escape condo living in Vancouver.


Suppose I am put off by owning a condo is lack of time, I wouldn't have 10 or 15 years to wait out the market in the hopes it will go up to a point we could sell for a house.

I'd be pushing 60 by that time frame.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I don't think squamish represents the market in the LM.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

but that is where Jsmth lives, and therefore the market that he knows! As well as the market that he is currently interested in.


Vancouver and the Lower Mainland are strange entities in the whole of BC.

It is very edifying to get out of the Lower Mainland and see how much houses cost in the real world, not the inflated one that this region has become

We've had our house long enough to be mortgage free, and of course the value of it has increased enormously since we bought it in 1972.

We could sell the house and buy 4 in eg, Smithers, or on the North Island, or in Nelson.

We could buy 3 houses in the Halifax region of NS

and all those houses would be much larger than our little 2 bedroom 2 bathroom place.

BUT that pre-supposes that we want to live in those other places.

As we do not, then we will not be selling our house and capitalizing on the money that is tied up in it.

Jsmth is in the same boat, at the moment anyway, of wishing to live where he currently lives.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Never said it did, that is where we live so that is the market we have to consider.

Metro Vancouver is never going to be an option so not too concerned about it there.

The city's I like there will never be within reach for us.

Best we can do is Chilliwack or Hope when it comes to the LM and those 2 places are simply too far out.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

We have to live reasonably close to the border, Kelowona/Kamloops is about as far as we can go, or the island somewhere.

The issue is jobs that pay well enough to own in those places, I'd venture we would end up in the same boat as we are now, low wages for the kinds of jobs we can do.


I am out of idea's for jobs, so I doubt I'll leave the hotel world, but the pay for the most part tops out at what I am currently making. (unless your in management.)

Its just frustrating wages are so low compared to cost of living.

As I get older, I get more worried, I am running low on useful working years and not sure in the future if we could afford rent on just CPP since we will likely have no retirement savings at this rate.


I don't know how much it would sell for, but the house I lived in (with 7 other people in Vancouver) is assesed at 861,000 and its what you could define as a fixer upper, built in 1927, tiny lot, across from PNE on Pender.

840,000 for the land and 21,000 for the building.

Up from 737,000 last year.

I wonder if the lady who owns it and has all the renters needs them so she can pay the taxes...lol

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

scilly, i've been on this board a long time and am well aware of where j wants to live. but this thread isn't JUST about him. It's about Vancouver/LM and even though it might not work for HIM, it could well work for other people.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

It's just gotten to a point a large amount of people are frustrated as housing just costs too much vs what jobs are paying.

Housing should not be a luxury and in LM that is what it's turning into, including rentals, some people can't even afford rent anymore despite working full-time.

Pretty sad when even full-time workers can't afford rent.

LM doesn't exactly have a lot of decent paying jobs. let alone enough to provide the income needed for housing, even at the average of nearly 70k you likely can't own in Vancouver anymore.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Yes it's unaffordable. Millions of Canadians would like to live in the LM because of the climate, scenery and amenities. The reason they don't is that they can get a better job, a better house and a better lifestyle elsewhere. It's a trade off. Try and prioritise what you really want in the ten year's time, a decent house and yard or continuing easy access to the border and Vancouver.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I hear you with that - renting is expensive

I'm currently accommodation searching in craigslist for my own place and its a nightmare. I can't believe how many places don't have a stove and/or just a basic kitchenette.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I can't get any better of a job anywhere else, doesn't matter where in North America I go, the jobs all pay low wages.

We can't leave BC due to wife's need to be in BC as other province don't provide the same level of medication assistance as BC does, and since she is unable to work full-time, and I don't have the earning power to support a household alone, losing her disability would make living even more difficult.

Small towns are cheaper, but without a job, they are not an option, and if this small town is any indication, unless self employed, your not going to make much in a small town and be able to own.

I just have to figure out how to raise my income into the 50,000 range or higher.....:rofl:


We are open to pretty much anywhere in southern BC that is commutable to a larger city, doesn't have to be Vancouver, just can't be so far north it would take thousands of dollars to leave as airfares into Northern BC are not low.

You have to still like your city reasonably well...

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Vancouver has loads of shady places. The house I rented a makeshift room in the basement, only had a toaster oven and microwave....But it was all I could afford at the time and was the nicest of what I looked at.


Unless your have a high budget, Vancouver is a nightmare to look for rental housing.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Nearly 8,000 signatures: https://www.change.org/p/premier-chr...ket/u/10324691

Facebook page for "Affordable Housing Rally": https://www.facebook.com/events/419315721574615/

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Can you comment a bit more on this, ExKiwiLass?

The house prices at the moment are ridiculous - but why not assume forever since it's been like this for 10 years? :unsure:

On the point of condos, I also don't see them as a good investment - not only is the appreciation low, the depreciation reports often have quite a few nasties embedded. Or am I being too pessimistic?

Thanks,
V

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

I'm not sure where prices are going to go in Vancouver.

House prices are certainly not going to drop UNLESS there is a massive economic recession

What IS happening due to City Council decisions to increase the number of "living spaces" in Vancouver to accommodate 50,000 more inhabitants in the next 10-20 years, and up to 1 million in the 10-20 years after that, is that there are major new Community Plans being developed for the areas in Vancouver ......... Google "Vancouver Community Plans" if you are interested in finding out more.

These plans are encouraging higher density along major routes, around transit hubs, etc.

Thus 6 and 8 storey apartment blocks can be built on both sides of Granville Street between about 64th south to 72nd. 3 and 4 storey apartments will be able to be built north from 64th to Park Drive

6 storey apartments can be built along both sides of 70th Avenue from Granville to Oak Street.

6 storey apartments can be built along both sides of Oak Street south from about 57th to the bridge.

Townhouses and duplexes can be built in a lot of the current single family zoned areas between the major roads.

Rezoning will be required, and it will obviously take several years before too much happens.

But this is one reason why you are seeing huge boards showing that several lots in the same block have been sold ............ they haven't really. There are a handful of realtors who are amassing property that they will then sell on to deep pocketed investors willing to wait 2, 3 or 4 years before they can develop them. Meanwhile, the current home owners are, in the main, laughing ......... the realtor has assured them that they will get $1-2 million more for their home over selling it as one house and lot, they can stay in the house until rezoning is done, and they may even be paid a monthly amount by the developer. Some of the home owners are not happy ........ they feel they have been coerced or forced by their neighbours into joining this amassing.

As an example ......... there is one block on Granville Street where the same realtor amassed 7 houses, she then advertised that grouping 2 months ago for sale at $33 million. Each house and lot was therefore being assessed at over $4 million, which was probably about one third more than it was worth as a single sale.

What will this mean???

Well, it all depends on how the rezoning is done and what the city planners insist on ........... they don't seem to be building many rental apartments now, and the number of social housing in new developments is being negotiated down from what the City has said would be enforced.

I did find it very interesting that the area south of 70th and between Granville and Oak is currently almost entirely 3 storey apartment buildings, a mix of rental buildings with amongst the lowest rents in Vancouver and condos. That area was specifically left "as is" in the Marpole Area Plan, with no development to occur except for that along the south side of 70th itself.

Other areas of Vancouver are undergoing the same sort of fast apartment growth ........... along Cambie Street, Grandview Woodland, etc.

And these plans do not include the "spot rezoning" for high density towers that has taken place in several areas around town.

If I remember correctly the Marpole Area Plan was said to be needed to provide 10,000 new units over the next 10 years, ie one-fifth of the total considered necessary for the whole city ........... but spot rezoning that has already been completed or in the process has already added at least 4,000 units, with about another 4,000 in the planning. Thus the total of new units in this one area alone will amount to at least 20,000 in 10 years time

With, I hasten to add .......... no provision for other services such as new schools, larger library, improved transit, increased provision of city services such as water, sewer etc.

They do want to build a new Community Centre ....... demolishing the current one which is at the edge of a park, with playground and sports fields, and close to the local high school, and replacing it with one in a high-density area on Granville Street where it will be combined with a new library, but there will be no outside areas and too far from the high school for the students to go.

And similar will be happening along the Cambie Corridor, Grandview, and all the other areas where Community Plans have either been completed or are in the process.


Will it mean cheaper houses ....... I doubt it, as there will always be people wanting a single family home on its own lot.

There will be more townhouses ......... which will be attractive to many people, but probably not any cheaper than they are now.

Apartments and condos are a conundrum.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Anyone can buy property in Australia, PR or not. They simply need the approval of FIRB.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

When I had a job offer at YVR (didn't take it as pay was too low and we could not find housing, and not worth commuting for 10.75/hr.) we looked at Marpole area as its pretty much the most affordable area close to the airport (Richmond apartments were a bit steep) and most of the places we looked at under 850 per month we complete dumps. Rent cheaper yes, worth what was being charged not really.


We did find one place right on Granville there, and was in our price range, and we did apply, but so did 10 others, so we didn't get it, but of the places in that area we looked at, none were a place I'd volunteer to live in.


Its too bad airline related jobs pay so poorly, I'd be so happy if I could work with planes again....lol


House sales in Squamish are even insane right now, real estate agents can list a house today, have an offer by tomorrow.

They can't get houses onto the market fast enough at the moment.

Nothing for the most part has been built since around 2009/2010, and now the demand outstrips supply, so developers have come back to build (no apartments or condos however and no rentals) and we have people with signs on their property where its zoned already for town houses saying they will sell for a good offer, hoping a developer will buy.

Not in a bidding war situation, but everything sells for listing or just above at the moment.

90% of the buyers at my wife's office work in Vancouver, but can't buy there, so they come here and rest are a mix of locals, new arrivals and Whistler folks with a good amount of the first time buyers getting down payments from the bank of mom and dad....lol

I did about 7 years try to get my dad to invest by buying a house in Chilliwack when I lived there, couldn't get him to go for it though.

My wifes mom has an acre that is subdividable and most have already been done and another house built, my wife has tried for years to get her mom to do the same so wife could have a house, but she won't do it.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

That is why I have increased my budget and said no to downtown - only around east van and around Renfrew/29th ave.

I have to say Hastings Sunrise is getting pricey. Some friends recommended I look round there but its not cheap - cool area though

There are some really nice basement suites on craigslist for around $750-$800 in the area I am looking at. Would rather spend more for transit in then live downtown in an area curtained off the size of a prison cell.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

Yeah Hasting's-Sunrise has gone up a good amount from what I see on CL. It was pretty reasonable still when I lived over there.


I made the mistake once of trying to commute from eastern Maple Ridge, well technically Mission, but literally just across the boundary on transit, while doable, man it was exhausting and long term burned me out.

It was like a 2 hour some odd trip, required 2 buses and a sky train ride.

I went from as far east as the bus went, all the way to VGH area.

Re: Vancouver Property Petitition
 

the spread between houses and townhouses/condos hasn't been as wide in the past as it is now. When we were first house-hunting in 2008, you could get a house (admittedly crappy, but still a house) for only 60,000 more than a townhouse. We've been in the market since 2004 and bought and sold a few times. Sometimes townhomes have been more sought after than houses. That's all I meant.

Houses are crazy higher than condos now, but it hasn't always been this way. Either houses will come down or condos will appreciate.

I think you are being too pessimistic. Again, you do your homework. We bought before depreciation reports existed - now THAT was scarey because you had to go by detective work to find out if there were any issues. Don't forget, houses can have lots of issues too. condos are flat right NOW but there's nothing to say it will continue that way - they certainly haven't been flat in the recent past.