USA refugees Huh?
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn....tes/index.html

From a safe country to another safe country? Huh, and Canada lets this happen !! :(

RCMP intercepted almost 7,000 asylum seekers in the last six weeks in Quebec. 3,000 of those were in July, RCMP says, and almost 4,000 in just the first half of August.

Canadian police wait patiently on the other side. They warn anyone who approaches that what they're about to do is illegal, that they'll be arrested.

But that's the first step. Once arrested, the thousands of asylum seekers who have made this journey across to Quebec in the past few weeks, can apply for asylum in Canada. He hopes that would mean a chance at uniting with his family that remains in Haiti after 17 years apart. Then, he hopes, his family could apply to for asylum to become Canadian residents too.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

America isn't a safe country for Haitians. They're not refugees but people given temporary accommodation due to disaster and their temporary status is expiring.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Not all are that is just an example:

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4257696

It appears that Canada is bound by the Safe Third Country Agreement, which mandates that refugees must claim asylum in the first safe country on which they land. Asylum seekers who first landed in the U.S. must be sent back there if they attempt to enter Canada through an official point of entry — except these asylum-seekers are crossing into Canada illegally, meaning the Safe Third Country Agreement does not apply. :blink:

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

You are presumably aware of why there's a flood of Haitians crossing the border into Quebec?

It's almost entirely because refugees from the 2010 earthquake, whose homes and communities were largely destroyed, had "enjoyed" TPS (temporarily protected status) in the USA until now. In May of this year, on instruction from the current Federal administration, that protected status was renewed only for a further 6 months and the advice was given to Haitians that they should prepare to leave the country voluntarily or expect to be deported.

What would you do in those circumstances? There's already a significant Haitian expat community in Montreal and across Quebec. There's not a significant language barrier. There's no realistic prospect of returning to Haiti, where the infrastructure has not adequately recovered from the earthquake in 2010 and Hurricane Matthew last year. If Trump is throwing them out of the US, where else are they supposed to go?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

What a mess !

Trump really is an ass regarding the Haitian situation

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

I noticed you'd been a little quiet on the Trump front of late. ;)

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Ha ha I was just sitting back and watching the US implode

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Well here is conundrum that Canada is facing. The Haitians that arrived in the USA were not fleeing fear of persecution, reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion. Many have been in the USA for several years under the TPS which they knew was temporary and would have to eventually to return to Haiti.

Now the TPS is under threat to be lifted by Mr Trump which also applies to thousands of other South/Central American citizens guess what Canada is now the potential destination for these people who are fearing that they will be sent back to these countries.

Can the Haitians make a claim for protection in Canada? Yes they can.
Will they be accepted as refugees/protected person within Canada? To be determined by a member of the Refugee Protection Division.
Can they appeal a negative decision? Yes they can.
Can they be removed back to Haiti? Yes they can.

The big question is how many will be found to be in need of protection as at the current moment the acceptance rate of claimants from Haiti is around 50%.

Unfortunately the state of a country is in after a national disaster are not grounds to make a claim for protection.

So if found not to be a refugee then what does Canada do with them? Keep them or return them to Haiti?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

The last four words of your statement are redundant.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

So what would happen if a temp worker in Canada, believing their visa may be refused, or someone on a 6 month stay decides to go to the USA, but rather than cross at the border, where a normal immigrant would cross, goes across the opposite direction to the Haitians ?

Would the US take them in and make a camp, give them food and $$ and say welcome to America ?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Meanwhile (in the news) the Haitian born-Canadian MP from Quebec, Emmanuel Dubourg travels to Miami to explain the situation. Duh!

http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...asylum-seekers

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

It doesn't matter. If Donnie sticks his head in the gas oven, are you going to stick your head in the gas oven? What Trump's America does is no guide to what anyone else should do.

That said, if the competent authority finds someone not to be a refugee and the appeal fails, Canada has to send that person back to whichever country they came from. If people don't go back at the end of a temporary protection arrangement, it'll be politically very hard to ever have another similar program for another disaster.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

That can take years n years with many appeals, meanwhile !

If these people came across at a border they would be sent straight back to the US, why don't Canada just do the same wherever people cross, legally or illegally

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Because when playing monopoly, you go around the board clockwise, they are the rules.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Any estimates of how many temporary status Haitians there are in the US? Maybe Canada/Quebec could absorb them.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

After the earthquake 100,000 Haitians were eligible for the TPS. The number is estimated to be 58,000 to 70,000 in the USA. An actual figure quoted by the Miami Herald states 58,000 actually registered.

Also there are 57,000 Hondurans enrolled in the TPS from Hurricane Mitch in 1998.
The total of estimated people in the USA from 13 countries under the TPS is 300,000 and Trump is looking at not extending their status.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Thanks FL. Not excessive numbers (Haiti alone). If they pass the snowbank 'test' let 'em in.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

They are crossing illegally because, as Former Lancastrian has explained umpteen times, they know that if they do so, Canada has to process their refugee claims. If they try to cross legally they get turfed. Canada could change that, make it possible to send them back when they arrive illegally but the political cost is high. That means getting into a fight with the Trump "administration" and with the US more generally. It's cheaper to put up with Trump dumping his Haitians.

I don't know anything about the Haitians, btw, Trump's dumping them through prejudice but he may be giving up a valuable asset; what's the typical status of a Haitian in Canada after ten years?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

By way of contrast/comparison:
After the volcanic eruption that made much of Montserrat inhabitable, the UK gave temporary refuge to around 4000 Montserratians, fairly quickly giving permanent rights to them as well as the rest of the population, unless they had settled elsewhere.

According to wiki, they numbered 8000 in the 2001 census, falling to about 7300 in 2011 census.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

They are economic refugees. Seven years is enough time to get their situation sorted in Haiti.

However, they are highly encouraged to apply for residence using the same processes as everyone else, and if they qualify, welcome!

They are not welcome to abuse the asylum process to jump the migration queue.

Trudeau has learned nothing and thinks sending a bureaucrat down to Miami to talk to them will fix this. It would be hysterical if not so serious. The flow of money in the US is ending, and if you allow some to abuse the process, cross illegally into Canada and disappear - the flood will come. What's happening now is just the tip of the iceberg.

Haitians arriving via legal means are welcome.

Is Quebec really the place Trudeau wants to kick off a migration furor?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Yes, they may well be valuable assets, given that Haiti is one of the unluckiest countries in the world.
The "economic migrant" argument is quite a blunt tool, there are degrees of economic hardship and geographical circumstances. In Haiti's case, Canada could be more lenient.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Deportations already exceed last year's total.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1B42QE

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Meanwhile they clog the system while legitimate applicants sit back and patiently wait in line

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

I think there are a few differences though. Regardless of the legality of crossing into Canada, they have still lost their home through disaster as compared to the person exchanging a comfortable life for another comfortable life with no particular urgency involved.

A major piece of advice to people on BE is to apply for one of the temporary statuses in Canada and then use that to turn it into something more permanent. Then there's the questionable get in under a provincial method and then move somewhere else "when it doesn't work out" :sneaky: Isn't there a similar element of 'wrongness' in that too? Getting in under one category, hoping to change it to another?

Bit of a double standard, no?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

I'll acknowledge that it's probably not typical of the career path of your average Haitian refugee, but Michaëlle Jean, former Governor General of Canada and current sec-gen of the Organisiation Internationale de la Francophonie, came to Canada as a refugee from Haiti (her father had been arrested and tortured by Papa Doc Duvalier's regime) in 1968.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

See? :rofl:

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

At the end of the day it sends the wrong message IMO, come x our borders and get refused or illegally enter away from a border crossing, get arrested, start of a criminal record history and bam, welcome to Canada.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Exactly. Economic migration is a relative thing.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Instead of sending a guy down the US to talk with Haitians would it not be more beneficial to discus their future status in America with the US Gov ?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Refer to the leaked conversation between Trump and Malcolm Turnbull. The Canadians would be wasting their breath.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Ah ok then

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

The trouble with that is they are not charged with any offences entering between ports. They are reported for being an Immigrant without a visa. They don't get a criminal record for this.
Now granted they are given a removal order that is not enforceable if eligible to make a refugee claim. If they get a positive decision the removal order is quashed and then they can apply for PR status and then apply to have family members sponsored.
If they get a negative decision they can appeal the decision and the removal order is stayed until the appeal is heard.

So bearing in mind with a backlog occurring it could be years before they are removed. There is no Administrative Deferral of Removal to Haiti but there is one for Somalia and we have lots of those also crossing but not in Quebec. So those cannot be removed unless they are serious criminals with convictions in or outside of Canada or deemed to be a security risk or have committed war crimes or human rights violations.

Now take a deep breath and smile.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

@FL They can apply to sponsor family ? How can that be so grr! when me as a PR, now a citizen cannot sponsor my own son and family who BTW are not dependents

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Well they can certainly apply to sponsor family members who qualify i.e. wives and children and possibly others if they meet the criteria to be sponsored.
Its not unusual for a married Somali to have 3 + children under 19 which will soon rise to 22 yrs old.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Issues like this will continue to happen until there is serious reform of the Asylum system as currently it used far too often simply as a way to avoid the normal immigration system.

You could start by denying asylum to anyone who voluntarily leaves a safe country or safe area. Far too often you hear of people who have travelled through dozens on safe countries to make a claim in their country of choice.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

I don't hear about them, though I'm sure they exist. How are you advised of their antics?

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

The CBC and Global have done articles talking about routes many migrants/asylum seekers have taken to get to Canada.

The consequence of not getting this crisis under control is potentially a wholesale collapse in Canada's generally welcoming attitude to immigrants which I for one wouldn't like to see.

Back in March there were polls showing half of Canadians supported immediate deportation of illegal border crossers with 25% saying immigration control was a leading national issue.
I bet these figures have risen substantially since.

The Liberals are already fearful that the crisis will effect their electoral chances at the next election especially in Quebec.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Ah. I suppose I should look at the local news now and then, it's probably been a decade since I've seen either of them.

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

They probably only mean non white illegal border crossers.

As an example there's an American woman in town whose just been removed to the USA with her Canadian born kids. She's only ever been here as a visitor so has overstayed by a fair few years. Anyway locals are saying this isn't fair. The same locals are also complaining about Haitians getting welfare.

So tolerant these Canadians

Re: USA refugees Huh?
 

Is the American white? (They come in variety of formats and you don't say specifically).