Novocastrian

I'd been using PC's with Microsoft operating systems since the days of the Commodore Pet and then the first IBM 8088 machine. I know what value for money is.

Aviator

So why get a Mac to run windows. Why not pay less and get a Windows PC? A Mac has run Windows emulation for years.

bodgerx

Yes, it has had emulators, but only recently run windows natively as a PC does.

Why pay more and get a Mac?

Aviator

I guess you are a fan of Macs, I'm not. Thanks for the entertainment, it's been a blast.

stepnek

This whole debate to do with Macs and PC's puzzles me as I'm not sure where the argument is. Not everyone likes the same car do they? We choose what we like.

My computing (sadly like my whole life) has been always at the budget end so I always end up with a self-build PC which does the job and is fairly easy to fix when it goes wrong. If I wasn't budget conscious then I'd love to try a Mac because it'd be fun to do. Alas with my income it's not on the horizon anytime soon.

Novocastrian

Even if you are really budget conscious there's no need to use Microsoft products. Others will know more about this than I do, but why not have a look at Ubuntu? It's way cheaper than XP/Vista + Office etc., and will run on any PC especially self-built ones where you have to pay for some OS or other. Why Microsoft?

http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whati...u/904features/

stepnek

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact just recently I set up an old laptop with Ubuntu as I'd read that it was easy to use and I was very impressed with how it dealt with the hardware so comfortably. It's not my main computer so I've not played around with it too much but I certainly intend to.

MikeUK

I now use Ubuntu as my main Operating system, I was a windows user a few years ago but got fed up the upgrading hardware and disks just to absorb the bloat of a new windows issue, moved to Slackware and spent a great deal of time writing scripts & building a very unique system, a blend of Media server, internet radio station and client server set up for 4 PXE terminal in the house.

Just over a couple of years ago I moved to Ubuntu to get the benefit of the Linux Terminal Server Project v5 to drive my internal PXE terminals, I love the factc that it can auto identify the hardware, so i can play with the components without having to bother installing any drivers, very useful when you want to use a PXE boot for mixed hardware, the variety of software that’s a simple install away means I can add software install, test, and remove without having to reboot the server, very useful when you have two boys playing on the web upstairs.

For me the key drivers for Ubuntu/Debian systems are reliability, they stay up and run its worth buying a UPS just to see the uptime figures you can achieve, setting up a RAID set for disks is easy adding further to the reliability, I prefer to use dual processor systems for the same reason.

I might be a bit over kill,, but my wife expects the home computer system to do the things she wants but be as reliable as the telephone, I was never able to achieve that on either a Windows machine or a Mac without huge costs and repeated expensive upgrades,those upgrades invariably led to crashes and further instability which cost time to resolve,

These days my time on the computer other than web browsing e-bay for HiFi , Classic mini or John Deere parts, consists of about 5mins a week maintenance to download the updates, inspect them and then install those I feel needed or relevant and maybe a reboot one a month just because.

for those that care the PXE terminal is a small computer with just memory no hard drive and gets all its data via the network, the key upside for me is they are generally fan-less and therefore silent, they use very little electricity, and all the grunt work is done on the server, they just do the input and output

R I C H

I'm indifferent either way to the Mac Vs PC debate, but don't really understand this point Mike. I've a MacBook Pro at work, which in the 8mths since I got it hasn't once needed to be re-booted, and I can only recall a couple of occasions when a web browser has crashed.

Why would huge costs be involved and repeated upgrades be required to get reliability? Does your wife's work really stretch the limits and capabilities of a well specced machine?

MikeUK

It’s not the work, more the applications, streaming audio, streaming video and ripping files and supporting the PXE boot system running 24/7

The PC provides a continues Internet radio stream, that can be picked up by any of the clients, the media server to the TV, or any outsider if they have access rights to the server
It also provides a large video/audio library to the media server as well as the clients (kind of standard today)
The clients were and will be 4 PXE boot thin clients (currently running just two at the new house as the network is installed), just attempting to run these things alone can be a royal pain from Windows and I believe because OSX is BSD based its easier for a Mac system, not impossible, but a significant reason to move to Linux the auto hardware detect means whatever is attached as long as it follows a PXE boot protocol will come up and be attached without issue every time
The upgrade issue I had was mainly related to installation of drivers for hardware especially windows and frequent clashes with in my experience multiple network cards and raid cards resulting in real problems, my earlier Mac /Apple experience is more related to paying huge overpriced sums for hardware just to get a superior OS

I’ll be honest if I’m recommending somebody with limited technical knowledge and some cash I’d certainly recommend a Mac to quote “OSX All the advantages of Linux without the need to learn it”

I cut my teeth on Apple][+ and Apple//c when an Apple used 6502 CPU’s I started using Linux on 486’s, for me the real advantage was moving in to Intel server boards being able to use multiple processors PII+ which meant systems that could handle lots of data and multiple simultaneous users

But if you're the type thats building your own system yourself, I don't think either windows or OSX will allow you to maximise your effort in the same way a *nix distro would

R I C H

What you've described isn't exactly a typical 'home computer system' though. For most, what you're prescribing would be completely unnecessary.

Alan2005

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with a mac either - if it's just for home use I'd forgo the OS completely and install ubuntu or something. I've never really liked linux, but that is a good easy to use OS. And with firefox + open office it will do all of the things that your average home user needs.

To be honest, I never really understood the fanboy attitude of mac users. It's just a computer; you only bought one, you didn't invent the bloody thing! (actually posting this from my mac, but until apple sort out the fact you can't change the system font size I won't be buying any more apple products).

MikeUK

I'm well aware of that...... unnecessary yes!....... but certainly very nice to have
Yet when I started dicking around on a ZX81 and a TRS80 this was what computers were going to do…

Now most uber powerful home PC’s do nothing more than word processing, e-mail and web browsing you’d have to admit most home computers are vastly over powered for what they do, at least mine earns its keep

sharkus

What OS version are you running? I'm guessing you are referring to Finder directory listings when you mention font size.

I know that on 10.5 (possibly even 10.4) if you go into the Finder, then select "Show View Options" from the "View" menu on any open window then it'll display, well, the view options, and there is the ability to change the text size. Choice is limited to 10pt to 16pt, but there is a choice. You can then click the "Use as Defaults" button set this sizing as the default for all windows. Icon size can be changed as well. I think 10.6 might allow more flexibility in this, I'm not running it on my main machine as yet so cannot check for you.

I'll admit I'm a mac fanboy, though I'm NOT a zealot who thinks everything non Apple is crap, I'm not that close minded. I've worked with Macs for 17 years, 14 of those as tech support (internal and external) for a software development company, so you could say I'm somewhat biased I do also work with PC's, have built desktops and servers. If someone asks for a recommendation for a new machine and a new Mac is within their budget it'll be one of my suggestions. Since the new Intel based machines have come out it's possible to dual boot OS X and XP/Vista (probably windows 7 too if you have Snow Leopard), thus you have the best of both worlds. Actually, you can probably triple-boot the machine and throw *nix into the mix as well if you want.

If someone is looking for a gaming machine then I'll recommend a PC, as you'll probably want to update the internals, something you can't really do on a Mac. Plus there are a lot more games for PC than Mac, and it seems most of the big games these days, are ported via Cider, so they are not truly written for the Mac.

MikeUK

I think the” Fan boys” dates back to the days, when illustrator and several of the other graphics packages were always one or more versions ahead on a Mac, the day’s when hip designers had to use a Mac to be up to speed in graphics
The need to have Mac in the graphics world disappeared about 10 years ago, the fan boys …………?