Novocastrian

While I can't fault anything you say there, I can't understand it either.

Could you clarify?

jimf

I agree. When someone reaches the age of 18 and is legally an adult why should their parents' income or social class have any bearing on the terms on which they can go to university? It would be interesting to know the cost of fully funding 50% of school leavers for 3 years of further education though.

I think there are various studies which show the financial benefit of a degree has declined and some that show it hasn't. I suspect the overall average value of a degree has declined as the expansion has taken place at the bottom end of the market in terms of subjects and institutions. The better institutions and subjects still probably offer good value, especially those that lead to jobs where effective barriers to entry can be maintained to artificially inflate the earnings potential.

Caitilin

Support staff is actually already bearing hte brunt of any cost cutting at the U of L.

and without support staff, no services, no working projectors, computer labs, cleaning, admin, HR etc, etc etc........Good, innit?

Alan2005

I assume so - don't statisticians they have null hypotheses that they test for this sort of thing. Don't ask me how, I forgot.

Caitilin

BS. I'm qualified, my brother isn't, my dad isn't. Doesn't mean any better or any worse. What it means is a different skill set. Some things are based on academics, AI being one of them. Some are based on practicalities, programming, support and the like being examples of them. And I've worked both jobs that required the quals and ones that don't (before I had them), so i'm hardly going to patronise myself now am I?

I just happen to disagree with the idea that compsci is less interesting than english.

Besides, what is wrong with going into a field that interests you?

Novocastrian

I think I'm having a bad hair day. I can't quite understand that either.

I'm suggesting (not arguing) that a vocational training would be much more valuable for a lot of students who currently are enrolled in Universities.

That's all.

dbd33

First the cheap shot, the last thing the world needs is more technology wired into seat belts, bad enough one has to listen to the ever more strident buzzing from Toyota dashboards. A career in devices to interfere with drivers is a fine example of a working life wasted.

Is that list the kind of work you consider is typically performed by Computer Science graduates? I suggest not. I'm surrounded by Waterloo grads, many of them functionally illiterate in English; they grind out their days fidgeting with the administration of Windows or reseting passwords for users who have forgotten them. Were there not such a glut of such graduates the cleaner would be seconded to do the work. It's not that I think there are no computing positions in which multiple science degrees are valuable, rather that I think most people taking Computer Science would do better to spend their time on something that broadens their horizons.

dbd
Uneducated author of programs running 24/7 in hundreds of shops around the world.

PS I'll take back the whole argument if you come round and load balance my washing machine. I'd love to see software juggle me blankets.

dbd33

You don't think expected income is a factor in that choice of course?

Naturally.

Alan2005

Er, you should probably read my post properly before you reply to it.

Alan2005

For some yes, but most that do those types of degrees are geeky nerds that love computers and stuff. You could probably make a better case for law or accounting though.

jimf

I must have been amending my posting to clarify as you replied. I wasn't disagreeing with you earlier. I think vocational training would be a lot more useful (to the individual and the state) than a lot of degrees undertaken now.

Novocastrian

Ok.

dbd33

The only law student I know is a starry eyed idealist set on changing the world. The Computer people, otoh, greedy as well as nerdy. Mind, one could argue that Computer Science is vocational training rather than education.

Novocastrian

I think there is a distinction to be made between support staff and administration.

Where I work support staff have essentially disappeared, but the administration has bloated to the size of a terminal brain cancer.

Oink

Parental influence on academic achievement and even professional selection seems fairly constant over developed societies. For example and I don't have the numbers, but the percentage of doctors whose parents are doctors is very high, children tend to follow their parents both educationally and professionally. Depending on the goal, education policy has to take this factor into account if large structural changes are going to take place.