ExcitedBrit

Is this a linear thing or U relationship Oink? Im sure you were joking there

Alberta_Rose

I don't think he was joking. I think he's just a complete plonker.

Alan2005

The major downside of them seems to be that the commoditization of education produces students with a 'i'm paying for this' sense of entitlement. I can't say I blame them - if I was paying top $$ I'd be demanding my lecturers cough up the goods.

No country can afford to educate everybody (or even most people) to degree level. There just isn't enough wealth in any given economy to either pay for it or to utilize the graduates produced.

How many does Canada need anyway? 10%, 50%? 100%? Whatever this number is, it should be a matter of policy to decide the total spend for education, and then divide that amongst those whose education will be funded. If this doesn't cover the cost then it's either tuition fees or less students; in other words the less elitist you make a university education, the more tuition fees are necessary to prevent education taking too big a chunk of tax income.

Novocastrian

I agree with that too.

I have one son who is a graduate of Queens' and a total waste of space (although he's a very nice chap and a good friend).

I have another son who's a college graduate and starting a hopefully useful and interesting job for which his training is perfect.

I'm a fossil of course, but today in Canada the value of a degree is roughly zero and kids should be discouraged from doing one.

Oink

All you end up doing is rationing places that way, middle class kids will still be the overwhelming majority, its just that the taxes of the working class are gong to support them, thus, paying for the privilege of their subjugation. Since the UK stopped blanket grants, the number of students, especially working class students, attending higher education has increased.

Novocastrian

Non sequitor. Simply select on merit and fully fund the students. Why should having "middle class" parents make a difference?



True. But the usefulness of a degree has dramatically declined.

Oink

The research shows that academic achievement is largely dependent on parental influence, education, so middle class kids will in general, do better than working class kids. Schools, it turns out, only have about 20% influence on academic achievement.

It’s a tough one, the only real way to achieve more equality, if that’s the goal, is means test and give grants accordingly. Charging tuition opens up places, society pays for poor kids to attend. Its not perfect, but I haven't been able to figure a better way. What we shouldn't do but will eventually, is to allow institutions to charge different rates as that will exacerbate the inequity, just look at the US system.

lilybilly101

I agree. I did a modern dance degree (now don't laugh) and I've never regretted it. I loved it....would I do it now with the fees....probably not as I would worry about not getting work to pay off the debts.

Oink

I rest my case.

Novocastrian

I'd forgotten about this discussion. Interesting what you report. Does this apply to all jurisdictions or is it UK based (or somewhere else based)?

I'm thinking that in the UK and US the quality of local schools and/or the accessibility to private schools is likely much more family income dependent than in Canada.

(I know we're straying into your areas of expertise, so I'm not risking being anything other than curious).

Alan2005

It would be possible to factor out the school quality / social group that attends it statistically wouldn't it?

Lord Vader

I think it is a crime for the state to forcefully take money from a family and then deny their child an education while giving their taxes to someone else's child. I think it is a bigger crime for people to be pigeon holed during their teenage years.

Many of the top mark earners from my high school class are bumming around in dead end jobs or working non essential unimportant jobs. Many others who did only enough work required in high school are having careers as a result of post secondary education. Test marks at 15, 16 years old are not the be all and end all. I would rather have been playing hockey or riding my dirt bike through the forest when I was 16 instead of studying for an exam. Everyone should have an oppourtunity to advance their education if they choose to. The state can't dictate someone's future when they are a teenager.

Caitilin

Yes, because Artificial intelligence is so easy and never used in anything like..
-tightening (not just locking) seatbelts in new cars
-voice recognition systems
-financial analysis systems
-R&D for planes (jet engines, if memory serves)
-Animations (Azlan's fur, anyone?)
-disease control and prevention (genetic algorithms)
- waste plant management (fuzzy logic)
- washing machine load balancing
- robotics for building cars
- bomb disposal units (US army)
- probably google, but that's just an 'educated guess'...oh wait, that's the problem, education...

That kind of education? takes 2 degrees. But I'm sure every english major create that kind of stuff - easy peasy, right?

Deb
MSc AI.

Alan2005

Nothing personal, but AI is a lie. I wish they'd call it something else.

Anyway - dbd is an IT person without a degree (at least in his profession). He conforms to the stereotype of not seeing much value in doing one; and to be honest he has a point. Most IT skills can be learned pretty quickly if you have the aptitude. Where he is wrong is that most people doing comp sci degrees and the like really are doing so because they are interested in them. The judgement implicit in his post was a little patronizing.

Novocastrian

Dunno. That's why I'm asking.