Re: Trudeau
 

Mad Max the climate change denier - enough said. Very odd name for a party considering his political persuasion.

Re: Trudeau
 

I think the whole point is his blatant hypocrisy. You know fine well if that had been Sheer, or anyone in his own caucus, they would have been facing calls to resign and would have been called all the pejorative names under the sun. Slap it into him, as far as I am concerned.

Re: Trudeau
 

I don't think this is the case. I think that, for Conservatives, racism and homophobia are routine and acceptable. This brownface matter is a bad thing because Trudeau's doing it and he's claimed to be better than that. For Scheer, Kenney and the like, it's usual...

"Scheer will stand by candidates with racist, homophobic past"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/con...lane-1.5284304

I can't imagine the Conservatives benefitting from this, if you think Trudeau's racist and don't like that, you're not going to vote for a party that's more racist. The Greens or the NDP might gain.

Re: Trudeau
 

This is an artificial argument, artificial because this minefield has so many aspects to it.
On the one hand you have the grotesque practice of slavery and the idea that the act of blacking one's face is in some way an act of resurrecting this into today's society.
On the other hand, you have the practice of simply dressing up to look like someone else.
How can we identify what's in the minds of those that do it?
Are we, ourselves, guilty of judging others by our own questionable moral standards?
How, for example, should we judge the mind of a white actor playing Othello?
Is he 'blacking' to play the part or is he in some darker place?
If we insist on his playing a black Othello by purposely remaining white, could he then be accused of being in denial of the existence of the darker race?
Trudeau could not have imagined at the time what impact his actions could have on his subsequent career.
I would argue that we should be more upset at the dynastic impact Trudeau introduces into Canadian political standards than of a grainy photo of a man blacking up as Aladdin.

Re: Trudeau
 

What he said.....:goodpost:....

Re: Trudeau
 

The problem Trudeau has is he is inevitably being judged by his own standards. Difficult to see how he could complain about that or be asked to be judged by standards he does not hold.

Re: Trudeau
 

Trudeau tries to shift focus from brownface images to gun control

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...to-gun-control

In the US that would be called doing a Beto, not sure if that translates. Basically reeks of desperation.

Re: Trudeau
 

Yeah. Thankfully we're not in the US. We can have sensible conversations about firearms here.

Re: Trudeau
 

Not sure how it's desperation that he wants to bring the focus back to actual political policies before an election instead of some poor judgement calls from his past.

Re: Trudeau
 

Anyone here remember collecting the Robinson's jam badges as a kid?

Re: Trudeau
 

Interestingly discontinued in 2002 which kind of highlights how the early 2000s were a somewhat transitional time for political-correct awareness.

I also remember a skit on an episode of TV Burp around that time where Harry Hill "browned up" to play Dev from Coronation St. I remember my mum remarking at the time that it was a bit un-PC to do that :P

Re: Trudeau
 

Robertson's; we didn't have it here, but:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...4feb429516.png

Re: Trudeau
 

Re: Trudeau
 

Mate, all due respect, I have read some drivel in my time, but that takes some beating.

Hypocrisy is the point here... Trudeau, and those like him (such as social media rent-a-mobs), crucify people for past "mistakes". Trudeau groped some wee lass, didn't he? He has been found in breech of ethical standards, hasn't he? He has seemingly mocked indigenous people, has he not? He sacked two women from his caucus, did he not? And he is an embarrassment on the world stage. He wants to have his cake and eat it re oil pipelines. I am not yet a citizen so, frankly, I do not care. But any suggestion you have that Trudeau is a fit PM over a Conservative, on this basis, is ludicrous.

I could not give a stuff if the Conservatives benefit or not, but it is the Liberal lot that started out with the character attacks and bringing up past "mistakes". There is nothing homphobic, for example, about supporting the traditional view of marriage. Believe it or not, you can have that view and also support the basic human dignity of LGBTQ people.

And, finally, on Scheer will stand by those with racist, homophobic past. Are you standing by Tudeau with his racist past, his misogynistic past and present, and his breech of ethics? Catch yourself on... If Trudeau has set the bar high, he himself needs to meet it at least, or he has to go down like he and his ilk would have others do.

Re: Trudeau
 

Re: Trudeau
 

. . . and your evidence for this is what? Or are you just engaging in the same lazy, stereotype troping of a large group of people that you are accusing conservatives of?

Tumbling_Dice is correct; hypocrisy is definitely the theme here.

Re: Trudeau
 

Fantastic post.

Re: Trudeau
 

What planet are you on?

Re: Trudeau
 

Presumably the 'basic dignity' does not extend to marriage ? With all due respect, non-citizen who doesn't care, I think the award for highest drivel content goes to you.

Re: Trudeau
 

I support LGBTQ marriage, and think it should have come decades ago. I can do that, while understanding and respecting religious viewpoints - such as those of the large numbers of migrants from the Middle East and Africa where homosexuality is criminalised on religious grounds, with overwhelming public support. In Australia's same-sex marriage referendum - what neighbourhoods do you think had the highest opposition?

Do you see the trap? If you support LGBTQ marriage, are you anti-Muslim? Or if you respect Muslim points of view are you anti-LGBTQ? Or if you swap out Muslim with almost any other religion? Absurd. You can be pro-LGBTQ marriage and a Friend of Islam as I am, or with any other religion or whatever.

The shallow ''boxes" some of the Trudeau ilk set to try and label people - with his tacit and sometimes overt encouragement - cheapen the dialogue, dumb down public discourse and set paradoxes that are bound to consume those who engage with it. That the cheerleaders of Internet mob hysteria (and there are several examples in this Forum) don't realise that the mob could - and does - change and turn on them at any time, for any reason - real or imagined - is one of the great ironies of the times we live in.

Because, of course I also don't believe Trudeau intended to be racist with what he did. But he has set that standard now and he has to live with it. What would Trudeau be tweeting if it was some other politician? Move on, nothing to see here? Come on.

The world is a lot more complex than a lot of people like to accept.

Re: Trudeau
 

Well there's the rub, I'm very anti-Islam, and most religions in fact. I don't respect religious viewpoints as they're absurd and often politically motivated.

Re: Trudeau
 

Atheism, if that is what you are implying you are, is your prerogative.

Re: Trudeau
 

I didn't know some kind of label was compulsory.

Re: Trudeau
 

Not compulsory.

Re: Trudeau
 

Thank you, one doesn't like to do things by halves.


Yes, he seems to be guilty of all those things. And yes, he's still better than a conservative; Ford, Johnson, Trump - they stand for personal enrichment at the expense of the people they govern. Such leaders are only advantageous to their immediate circle.

Opposing gay marriage is definitively homophobic, It's denying equal rights. I don't think people should not be denied equal rights due to things they cannot control such as colour, orientation or disability. Where equality clashes with religion it's the religion that should be denied.

[This seems tp ne repetition. He's guilty of all manner of offenses by his own standards. In the main they're not offenses by Scheer's standards so it's a bit rich for Scheer to have dug up this dirt. He does make Trudeau look personally insufferable but we knew that already. "Is thus all you got" would have been a better response than a grovelling apology.

Re: Trudeau
 

Apologies for all the formatting errors. Driving a manual car.

Re: Trudeau
 

Or Agnostic... or Gnostic..

To each their own.

:)

Re: Trudeau
 

I note a distinct lack of any engagement with the points raised about Trudeau, though I am not surprised. The limitations in your own thinking about the issue of human dignity are your own.

Re: Trudeau
 

The only conservative relevant to this discussion is Scheer. I am yet to see evidence of Scheer demonstrating any of the double standards that Trudeau has displayed (unless you can show otherwise) and, resultingly, would think it worth letting him make his case. If he is going to fling dirt, then sod him. He should have enough positive reasons in the kitty to vote for him without needing to fling mud.

Your middle comment I shall ignore as it is not pertinent to a thread on Trudeau. I only brought it up as the liberals were trying to crucify Scheer on this topic. Your limitations in your thinking on the topic are your own.

As for the final paragraph, was it Scheer who dug up this dirt? I mean, did Trudeau not also state that he hid this because he was embarrassed and ashamed. I wanna be PM and be the bestest, most progressive PM in the world, but I have a dirty wee secret which I think I will hide and about which I shall not be honest. I think Singh put it well... will the reall Slim .. I mean Trudeau, please stand up?

Re: Trudeau
 

Others have quoted him saying that an apology for a past behaviour should be the end of the matter. Is the continuing attacking of Trudeau despite an apology (several times over) not such a double standard?

Or is it okay when it's one of your own but a bad thing and not forgivable when it's someone on the other team? Or does it only count for certain double standards and not others?

Re: Trudeau
 

Well, you did bring it up, and it's an area in which the conservatives in Canada have historically done very poorly. I don't think it's limited thinking to take the view that people should have equal rights and those rights should not be bounded by the whims and superstitions of others.

Re: Trudeau
 

Funny you should says things like that because I can't see any point where I have claimed Scheer as one of my own. Your assumption on that point is entirely on you.

My point, which should be obvious, is that there is a reasonable question to be asked as to whether Trudeau is apologising because he was caught (when he has admitted not admitting to it) or because he genuinely feels it. Singh has asked the correct question on it and it is for Trudeau to either answer or voters to decide. Given his hypocrisy on other matters "people may see situations differently", for example, I shall naturally be sceptical, as will many others, and that will lead to the question as to whether he is forgiveable.

It remains funny that the continuing attacking of poor wee Trudeau should annoy you so much. Might it occur to you that it is not just partisan conservatives who are attacking him but those who are not partisan, who voted for him at the last election, and who are now wondering if he is full of crap? I mean, one other thing that he could be questionned on is: I will reform the voting system... oh, hang on, that won't work for me, ***** that!!

There are many reasons to not vote for him, in my own view, but rank hypocrisy seals the deal. The question should then be NDP, Green or Conservative.

Re: Trudeau
 

The liberals brought it up, which is why I referred to it. This is a discussion on Trudeau... Unfortunately, the liberals have made the mistake of investing their brand in golden boy and it has come a bit of a cropper.

Re: Trudeau
 

It's a recurring problem with dynasties. The genes never breed true and, unless you're very lucky, those genes that carry important traits like deceit, betrayal and common back stabbing get trashed as soon as the chromosomes get to decide how evolution progresses to the next upgrade.
It's not Trudeau's fault,he's simply a prisoner of his family and those who see some advantage in the name.
He was probably happy as a teacher, but as a politician.. well, you know.. this class gets to shout back and there's nothing he can do about it.

Re: Trudeau
 

So Trudeau seems to be on the right track ?

Re: Trudeau
 

It's a matter of balancing failings and choosing between them. None of them are parties or leaders one would actively vote for. Personally I'm generally supportive of civil liberties so that rules out the Conservatives, I generally want the government to leave people alone; I don't want an abortion law, I don't want to outlaw same-sex marriage and, anyway, I don't feel superior for being white. I was here for Rae days and have no faith that the NDP is better able to organize a piss up in a brewery now than it was then so that rules them out. In any case, when the NDP is mentioned I remember Jack Layton and steam comes out of my ears; I wouldn't have thought one could actively hate a Canadian until he came along. I don't think the Greens would welcome my vote, I drive a V12, so we're back to the Liberals being the least worst despite their himbo.

I don't vote here anyway so Canadian election results are a bit like NFL scores for me; they're mildly interesting but not engaging like US election results or football scores.

Re: Trudeau
 

What did you dislike about Layton?

Why not vote in Canada?

Re: Trudeau
 

His policies, when a councilor, were directly harmful to me.

I used to be able to walk to the beach, a huge road, locally dubbed "The Jack Layton Parkway" was bulldozed through the neighborhood, displacing the people who lived there for the benefit of commuters. I had to move house to regain beach access; others lost their small houses and had to move to the suburbs or high rises. It was typical pro-developer, pro-car, anti-urban dweller, stuff.

He was also instrumental in banning children from restaurants. At the time we took my autistic daughter to brunch with live bands each Sunday; something we were no longer able to do.

I was glad when he went off to Ottawa and could do no more harm in Toronto (though, of course, he still drew his pay in Toronto so we weren't entirely rid of the burden of him) and even more glad when he was Hovis.

I'm not from here, it's not my business.

Re: Trudeau
 

Ok. Didn't know about the Parkway. He seems to have been well regarded outside of YYZ.

Aren't you not from there now? It's been a few years I imagine.

Re: Trudeau
 

No. No, you really can't.