Teenagers
 

I thought I'd ask this here because I know you guys won't hold back with what you think!

My granddaughter's Mom (who was 16 when she had my granddaughter) wants to put my granddaughter, who is 14 1/2 - on the pill because she THINKS my granddaughter has a boyfriend.

I am very close with my granddaughter. She tells me that she can't discuss female type things with her Dad and she doesn't get along with her mother. I have told my granddaughter that she can confide in me and I won't betray her confidences, BUT if she told me something serious, then I would tell her that I was going to tell her Dad. I wouldnt go behind her back and do it. I think its good that she confides in me, but she will stop doing it if I betray her confidences.

Anyway, my first inclination was that it was stupid and insulting for her Mom to say she doesn't trust her and must go on the pill. For starters, I think it might encourage my granddaughter to have sex. And then the chances are that she will forget to take her pill every day. At which point, having been encouraged to have sex by making her take the pill - she is then more likely to get pregnant by forgetting to take it. And I know darn well - she will forget to take it!

I talked about it with my granddaughter. We discussed the definition of boyfriend and she says this boy is not her boyfriend but he might be in the future. But she is not so stupid as to have sex. She says she is not stupid, she is not like her mother! She said she is not going to get pregnant. I said "Yes but you can't blame them for thinking that you might."

She is really nice friends, one of whom lives across the street from me and she has been friends with her since they were three! This girl has an older brother and sister who are sensible responsible people and her parents seem very strict. My granddaughter is OK at school. Her two friends are top of the class. The three girls come to my house all the time and this is where they have the gatherings and sleepovers. She says she doesn't want her friends at her Mom's because she doesn't like her Mom and her room at her dad's is small and they have my whole basement. I KNOW they are not getting up to trouble down there because at any time I can and do open the basement door and I can immediately see the whole basement. They are playing music and texting.

I think that she and her friends are probably the "goody goodies" of the school and the teachers pets. They are friendly with one of the teachers who just had a baby and they have been to her house to visit her since. This would not be the case if they were the baddies at school. She also won the class award at her Grade 8 grad for being the most improved student. I am just saying this because they are not badly behaved. They don't hang around sitting on the sidewalk outside 711. They don't hang out in the food court at the malls. I am not sure if this makes her or them more or less likely to have sex. I am just saying that they are pretty well home bodies out of school. They are good kids.

I obviously do not want her to have sex at this age - or get pregnant. But you can't lock her in a closet for 10 years.

As I am her grandmother rather than her mother, I immediately trust what she says. Occasionally I have been wrong. Her Mom always has seemed very negative and is (in my mind) only to willing to think the worst of her.

I am going to chat to her Dad about my discussion with my granddaughter, but before I do, I wanted to know if I am being old-fashioned. Do you agree with me about making a 14 year old take the pill? Does it encourage her to have sex?

Re: Teenagers
 

I dont think contraception knowledge / availability has any influence over whether kids have sex or not.

Look at the US, kids in states pushing abstinence and not teaching contraception still have just as much sex, if not more than those armed with some pertinent facts. The only difference is that the states not pushing condoms seem to have much higher STD rates.

I think in this case EVERYONE should look carefully at the other effects of the pill, but ultimately this is something your granddaughter and her mother are going to have to figure out for themselves (even if you are pointing your granddaughter in the direction of some good information so she can make her own mind up and argue her own case well)

She sounds a sensible sort, hopefully her mother can be pursuaeded to trust her judgment.

Re: Teenagers
 

As someone who works/has worked with teens for a while I think the Mom and her need some time to work on their relationship, and you are treading on very dodgy ground to be honest....I understand that you love her to bits, but if she picks up that the adults in life aren't singing off the same pages then this will only add to trouble. Teens are very good at playing people off each other.....

I don't think the pill adds to having sex, but I am concerned that someone would be using it at 14 if they don't need to, purely from a health perspective alone.

Mum obviously loves her daughter, however she may choose to show it, and is trying to do the best for her and maybe wishes this is exactly the kind of pragmatic care that she had.I would personally suggest that Mum and daughter maybe go see a professional who is used to working with parent/teen relationships if things are that bad. Let them talk things through so they are both heard in a safe environment, these two could really benefit long term from this.

From yourself, I see that you are caught between the devil and the deep blue see, but like you say just because she's hanging about with a boy it doesn't mean that she's having sex, all I think you can do is keep the communication channels open and let her know there is someone safe to talk to should she need to, the way you already have. Also, school will have given her sex ed I presume.

Unfortunately good kids make decisions to have sex at 14 too, so don't get lulled in to a false sense of security there! But if she knows that she has adults around that she can talk to, then hopefully she may talk through this decison and reach a decision SHE is happy with. But until her and mum get on an even keel, I would think that typically, she won't be telling anybody much, as she knows, mum will have to find out in the end.

Good luck with this one, you have some tongue biting and diplomacy ahead by the sounds of things.

All the best
Mrs Miggins xxx

Re: Teenagers
 

It sounds like a sensible move to me. Better safe than sorry.

Re: Teenagers
 

Why the pill, why not condoms - where's the STD protection with the pill? I'd want to be explaining that side of it to my (non-existant!) teen too.

(what does an average brand pill packet cost in Canada anyway, I guess it's not free?)

Re: Teenagers
 

I wasn't going to go into this, but feel I should. This is not the normal teenager/mother disagreement. Until about two years ago, her mother was sadly lacking in the "mothering" department. At one point when my granddaughter was about 9, her mother left the country to marry a man in south America. She was gone for a couple of years. In the middle of that period she came back for a couple of weeks and was then gone for almost a year, during which time we had no communication from her whatsoever. It's going to be a hard job for her Mom to make that up!!

And Mrs Miggins says she loves my granddaughter, but she had a p*ss poor way of showing it!!

Re: Teenagers
 

I was just going to say something like that. There was a "Boston Legal" that broached this whole subject. Always a good source for liberal soapboxing is Boston Legal....:unsure:

Its not the end of the world anyway should she get pregnant, life goes on. or not, depending on your outlook on these things.

The best protection is ultimately being informed of your choices and exercising them as appropriate. Forcing people to do stuff is never the best long term fix to a problem.

Re: Teenagers
 

Oh liz, that's hard on you - presume it's that which means that you guys are so close.

If Mum has a brain in her head at all, she will know things are not great in the mother daughter relationship area, maybe with genuine support from you she might consider going and getting some guidance outside the family, so the two of them can get things on an even keel eventually, because I can assure, this will get worse before it gets better, and at 14 there are years of possible conflict ahead....which could be made a little easier. In the meantime you need to look after yourself and not get stressed about it all, because like you say, a massive part of this is about their relationship.

All the best
Mrs M x

Re: Teenagers
 

I would have to express concerns about someone being on the pill when there is no need to, all medication has side effects and is it worth risking this for no reason at all. I would also advocate the use of condoms, as Biiiink said they also protect against STD's which are rising at a dramatic rate here in the UK. I would also ask your granddaughter what she wants, does she want t go on the pill? At the end of the day she is old enough to give consent for medication/treatment (I'm presuming that she is) and the choice should be hers once she has been given all the facts by a trained professional.

I think it's nice that your granddaughter can talk to you, as someone who works with children and adolescents in a therapeutic setting, I have to maintain a young person's confidentiality whilst being aware there may be times when I have to breech this confidentiality. I find that by telling the young person this (breaking confidentiality usually means risk to the YP/other) then if they start to disclose something that might mean informing others, I remind them I may not be able to keep it secret but I will support them following telling their parents, most generally continue telling me whatever it was. They also respect that you are honest with them.

I do think that there are issues between mother and daughter, but for any type of therapy, including family therapy, the people engaging in it must want change, must recognise that change will have to come from all parties and it shouldn't be something that is forced. If someone id forced into some kind of therapy/counselling then they may be resistant to change and it may put them off accessing help in the future when they would be ready for it.

The most important thing is that your granddaughter can talk to someone who she trusts.

Re: Teenagers
 

Unfortunately, her mother is very controlling and cannot discuss things reasonably.

Just recently her Mom phoned me about something she had done and was screaming that I had better come and get her phone or else she was going to smash it into a thousand pieces. I could hear my granddaughter crying in the background and afterwards I said to her that by getting upset and crying, she is rewarding her mother for going ballistic. She would be better if she could manage not to cry - just to say "I don't want to argue about this" quite calmly.

Her Mom has a three year old. My granddaughter said "I get upset and cry when my Mom yells at me - when she yells at (the younger child) she just shrugs and walks away!"

I don't know that she is actually afraid of her mother. I just think that it's very disconcerting to have someone screaming and going ballistic. I am a heck of a lot older than her - and it upsets me. But perhaps that is just the kind of person we are and we can't help getting upset.

Re: Teenagers
 

1) I think the self esteem is fragile at her age.It does not matter
how intelligent she is, it is part of her development,where raging
hormones are happening and peer pressure is around her.

2)How about getting the other male members like dad and grandpa
to get involved in her life?. Find activities that they can participate
with her. She needs affirmations/guidance from male
and female role models in her life.

3)On going teaching of safe sex,the pills , sexual diseases ,drugs,
abusive relationship , gangs and the reality of having a baby.

Looks like you are playing the major role of parenting your granddaughter.
Perhaps joining a support group for parents as a support to raise,
guide your granddaughter and also deal with her mother. Also a good
place to vent your feelings with support.

You are doing a good job:thumbup:

Yoong

Re: Teenagers
 

She is close to her Dad. She says he is reasonable and they can discuss things. She just said she couldn't discuss things like female problems or sex with him because she would be embarrassed!

Her Dad is pretty strict about what she can and can't do. But she says that he will discuss things and doesn't get mad.

Back in the fall she and her two girlfriends were here and then a boy turned up. I kept checking to see what they were doing and they were on the computer listening to music. When I told my son, he was mad. He said she can't have boys here. So I said but what can three girls and one boy get up to all together in one room when I keep opening the door to see what they are doing? I thought it was fine. I thought better that they were here being supervised than somewhere else unsupervised. He said she can't have boys here because he said so!

Re: Teenagers
 

I suppose he was a boy before and knew what boys are thinking.
Well, "I said so" command only worked up to a certain age and only
invites teenagers to up the anti.

Have a talk with your son,tell him banning boys are not the answer.
Instead teach his daughter self respect,assertiveness , self esteem,
be street smart and dating from a male perspective.
If didn't know how to start,there are books and support groups available.
If a boy came to visit, he can talk to the boy and get to know him.
It is going to take time ,however it is good to know who she is seeing and
that include girls and boys.
The female talk will be grandma's department for now.

Yoong

Re: Teenagers
 

He said "I said so" to me. She didn't even mention it to him because I guess she knew he would say no.

I am interested that you sort of agree with me. I don't think banning boys works. What I think is that if she doesnt get to invite boys here, then she might start saying she is going one place but actually going another.

From what I see, all three of them have a very good opinion of themselves and they are all pretty confident. The only person she is not assertive with is her mother. But then I have always had a hard time dealing with her mother as well!

Re: Teenagers
 

Yes,the mother sounds like a handful ,very dramatic and explosive.
It would make everybody's life a lot easier if she gets professional help.

Yoong

Re: Teenagers
 

Um...3 teenage girls and a boy can get up to a LOT. They should never be in a room with a closed door. This is a good practice to get into while they are younger.

I can understand where she's coming from, not wanting to talk to her dad about "girl" problems. I hated talking to my mother about things, and was mortified to talk to my dad about it. When I was 13 I had a bit of a health emergency while my mother was on vacation, and had no choice but to talk to my dad, in tears the whole time. He was uncomfortable, but great about it. Personally, I think the DAD should make the effort to talk to her about sex, protection, etc. If he breaks the ice, while it will be embarrassing for both of them, she might be more willing to talk to him in the future, when it counts.

Re: Teenagers
 

I let them close the door because I don't want to have to listen to that "music" but I make sure that I walk over and open the door without warning. Like I said, my basement is just one big room and I can see the whole room as soon as I open the door. They wouldn't have time to stop doing anything they didn't want me to see.

Anyway, they are pretty sensible kids and they would know this and they would know that if they got caught doing anything, that would be the end of their freedom and the door to the basement would be removed the next day!

Re: Teenagers
 

I agree that just saying no has no effect what so ever. It is much better for your granddaughter to feel comfortabe bringing boys to the house, plus it allows you and her dad to get to know the people she is hanging around with.

If it is just about him worrying she will have sex, then if she is going to do it, she will find a way, whether he likes it or not. In some cases a point blank no from parents will be enough to make it more interesting, at some point her dad will just have to trust that he has brought her up in a manner that she feels confident enough to say no to a boy, or to take safe precautions when the time is right for her.

Maybe a mother/son chat is required:unsure:.

Re: Teenagers
 

Exactly, how can we expect our young people to make good decisions in their later teens, if they haven't been trusted throughout and given the opportunity to in their younger teens... kids aren't stupid, they just sometimes make not such great decisions for them. If you ask me, young lady probably looks at her mother and thinks there is no way she wants to be like her, so make decisions based on the opposite of her mother anyway, i.e not having sex at a young age etc....

And like you say Liz, she needs someone who trusts her, because believe me, I am watching 18 year olds go TOTALLY mental at college because they were not given that freedom earlier on and they are one huge mess of hormones and regret. Taboo = secrecy.

All the best this winters day,
Mrs M xxx

Re: Teenagers
 

I feel for you liz having to deal with your family issues and is
very draining.
Recently I had to confront my brother about my 16 yr.old
niece who refused to communicate with him due to abandonment issues.
I did not let my brother get away with all his excuses and reinforced
accountability and responsibility about his actions.

Then talked to my niece , listened to her and reframe any misconception
about my brother's actions. Then went back to my brother and told him to
change or else he is going to lose her. At least they are talking now.

There are more 3 teenagers in my family,so I getting my rest
during the calm periods.
Yoong

Re: Teenagers
 

I did have a chat with my son, but he is a bit intransigent - at least with me he is. However, I said what I had to say, but I don't think he was convinced. Actually, I think as you get older you tend to see the big picture and not sweat the small stuff, whereas he has told me that I think I know everything and I am always right!

Mind you, I do think its easier being a grandmother than a parent. I like it a lot better!

Re: Teenagers
 

As a mum of teenage boys, I have insisted from way before girlfriends were an issue that condoms were readily available in the house. I also made them partake in some embarrassing/hilarious training in the use of condoms, using bananas and I am still not convince that when that time presents its self that they will have the sense to get the condom out or even use if correctly!

I have six children;
1 - whilst one the pill
1 - condom split
1 - whilst using a coil
2 - planned where extremely hard to come by!
1 - acquired through marriage.

If there are no medical reasons for your granddaughter not to go on the pill, I personally would not argue with it. Teenagers are highly volatile and unpredictable. They have enough battle grounds to deal with without adding to them, as in the case of her mother.

Four of our children have another parents and step-parents, plus siblings, this is an added pressure in itself, as each home has it own set of values and acceptable behaviors. This is an emotional minefield for them, minimalizing confrontation between adults helps the internal conflicts which that have they to negotiate.

I hope that this is helpful; I have had this conversation with two close relative who have teenage girls, if this mum is so controlling, maybe the pill is a better option to an enforced abortion.

Re: Teenagers
 

My philosophy with her dad and his brother was to trust them until I discovered that I couldn't. Sometimes you have no choice. I was working full time. When my older son was 16 and her dad 14, I obviously wasn't going to send them to a babysitters during the summer holidays and after school, so I had to trust them.

I did find out afterwards much to my dismay that they were jumping from the roof of the house into the pool, which is only 9.5 feet deep in the deep end. However, they managed to survive. I am not sure how often they did that. It was 10 years afterwards that I was told and I didn't want to know the details!!

The older they get - the more you have to trust them and let them make their own mistakes and hope they aren't too serious mistakes!

Re: Teenagers
 

lessee....
holland has the lowest teen abortion and teen pregnancy rates in europe
Sex ed is taught from age 10/11 upwards. Double dutch (pill and condom) is advocated.

England has one of the highest rates..and is tending more towards abstinence or one type of sex ed.

BTW, does taking pills make you horny? it doesnt' me, so I don't see how taking contraception (which can be blessed if you have period pains or irregular period - which puts you at higher risk of pregnancy as you don't know when you're fertile) encourages sex. having a goodlooking guy there and getting horny, that encourages sex!

I'd say get her on the pill if she wants to be on it, and give her free access to condoms - and emphasise the use of both.