State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hi there,

Some recent conversations I've had with fellow teachers has made me curious about the state of education (public) in the U.K. I thought I'd come here to ask (as the majority of you are from the U.K.).

I teach in Hong Kong and have a number of teacher friends who teach at the various international schools in the city. I started noticing that they all complain about their students' 'difficult' British parents. These parents are constantly second guessing them and never seem quite happy with the education their children are receiving. One of my friends is a Kindergarten teacher. The father of one of her students told her he didn't agree with how she was teaching (methodology) and even asked her how old she was! She basically told him to screw off (politely, of course) and told him to look up what she told him online if he disagreed. Well, in the end he came back and apologized because he did do some research into her teaching methods and found out that they are current with what the literature indicates in terms of teaching reading. Now, the way the parents are acting would make me think that they care a lot about their childrens' education and that schools in the U.K. are providing great education.

However...I have had a number of friends (Canadian) who have taught at schools in London under the working holiday visa program. They have said that teaching at these schools is a nightmare. The kids are awful and the staff apathetic. So, what is the real state of public education in the U.K.?

I've noticed a number of people asking about where the 'good schools' are in a given area of Canada. I honestly don't think many Canadians view schools is this manner (good vs. bad). Where I'm from, in New Brunswick, schools located in larger centres seem to have better course selection (for high schools) and maybe better extra-curricular activities. As for elementary school, I doubt you'll find THAT much difference between schools.

If you have any questions about the way we teach elementary students in Canada, feel free to ask. I'm somewhat familar with the British National Curriculum, which is outcome based. Even though each province has its own curriculum in Canada, they are all outcome-based and are quite similar to each other. Actually, I've talked to teachers from many Western countries and the curricula they use seem much like ours.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Education System is terrible. I don't teach, I manage (manipulate) Statistics .

Schools only exist to meet government targets. pupils are pretty much unteachable. They don't feel the need to participate in their own education. Nothing that happens is their responsibility.

on the bright side - I only have 7 weeks left before I quit teaching in this Country for good!

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hey,

I just want to point out that I personally don't think all British parents are 'picky' or 'difficult'. Some teachers resent anyone questioning their teaching (I don't)...at least those parents care about what's going on in their kids' schools. It was just these conversations that had me wondering about schooling in the U.K.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

It varies.....

I think if you have a child who needs extra help - its very hard to get. Children with dyslexia get left behind because the government does not provide uk schools with enough money/means to support these children in the correct way.

Children who are challenging ( difficult, naughty or just a complete pain in the bum ) seem to get more help than those children who try hard.

The uk now seems to reward those who 'play up' and they get lots of attention and those that are needing help get left behind..... I think especially those parents are then pushing for their children to reach their potential and when you start in a new school/country that is a good time to put your foot down.... prob not the right thing to do - but a lot of parents are just so fed up with the way children are taught ( i am not saying its the teachers fault ) i do not think it is - well not in most cases. Its all down to the british way of life now - can't do this, can't tell them off, and so it goes on and on.

Respectable parents want their children taught in a safe, happy environment and want them to do their best ..... however their is just so much rubbish going on here that adults just can't do a thing without somebody somewhere saying you cant do that.

Our children are in different secondary schools - both are very different. One school seems to care and the other does not!!

I think what needs to happen is that we need to re-educate ourselves and children to accept authority..... be that from parents, teachers, etc.....

What hope do we have - our police even struggle because the government ( they are all as bad as eachother ) just don't seem to care that all aspects of society are suffering and going downhill.....

Hey, its not all bad - the sun was out yesterday - but today more rain ... hey ho:D

This is of course just my view.:thumbsup:

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Totally agree - not really surprised that Parents are unhappy with the way their children are taught. I'm fed up with the way I'm forced to teach. with one of my classes I haven't "taught" them anything new information wise Since Xmas. I have been Coaching them on how to Score highly in the end of key stage tests So that our Statistics look good.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

i agree, sadly our teachers have been stripped of the ability to teach,..... in our view when a child is being taught he/she needs to have total respect for the teacher and if they knew there was going to be a repremand for disruption etc..... they would be more inclined to do as they are told and in turn we would have a better adult population - they might even have some respect for others!!

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

...or the teacher is badly trained, is below average at engagement and delivery..it's not always the kids. :rolleyes:

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Don't come to BC then - with very few exceptions, my eleven years of experience of the teachers here in this province has shown that some teachers are barely literate, dreadful in the classroom, poor depth of education themselves and do the bare minimum from internet lesson plans. Give me a UK school any day, at least the original education standards for the teacher gives some hope that they are able to teach adequately at the end of the day. I know that there are good teachers here, at least three of my five kids have been taught at one point or another by different, exceptional and motivated educators. They are few and far between, however.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

I agree that there are some bad teachers out there, but often it is the school climate which affects the teacher's performance. Take me, for example. I taught at an international school for a year. I had 17 students who were wonderful. They were polite, well-motivated and all around great kids. This gave ME motivation! My principal gave me free rein in terms of my lessons (as long as we followed our year plan). We did not have to worry about government assessments, etc.

Presently, I am teaching English at a Hong Kong public school. There are about 40 students per class, the students are mostly from low SES backgrounds, and the local English teachers' teaching methodology is decidedly 'old school'. I feel like some kind of 'new age hippie teacher' at times. Yet, I'm just following the latest teaching trends from Western countries. On most days, it's a success if I can at least keep the kids under control. There are a handful of good students in each class and I feel sorry for them because they're probably not getting the education that they deserve.

I'm not defending lazy or bad teachers. However, I do think most of us start out with the best of intentions. I think the principals have a lot of influence over the school culture. The local English teachers here have marking up to their eyeballs. They barely plan for their lessons at all. The parents equate written worksheets to learning and expect their kids to have a mountain of homework. Yet, I find in Canada many parents complain if their children get too much homework. Different cultures, I guess.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

I agree with much of what you say. I trained in the early eighties, when the kids were still a few steps away from being feral. ;) I know most teachers start out with the best of intentions, but I guess I have watched my kids education delivery get worse and worse over the years and it is worrying. I do know (and readily accept) that BC is notorious for poor standards. I have seen first hand how different provinces have way different standards and how a principal can make or break a school. Interesting post. Thanks!

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

I found with my daughters UK schools that the class sizes were to big for the teachers to teach effectively - if more than one kid was having trouble with the concept of whatever was being taught then there wasn't the time to deal with all the kids as well as control the class and help out the kids that were struggling etc etc. The teachers seemed worn out and it felt as a parent that the only important stuff was the SAT tests.

Here the teachers seem to have time for the kids and the parents (the teachers are more approachable) the subjects seem to be taught for a longer period of time - making it stick in the kids brain and when my daughter has had trouble with a concept she has gone for a lunchtime extra help session or on one occasion she stayed on at school to do her homework because she wasn't sure what was expected and there were teachers around to help. The schools here also seem in better condition and better equipped with a wider choice of activities and subjects to choose from.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

<steps into the room, looks around, thinks of wife, walks out again>

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

thanks sweetie:wub:

unfortunately my husband has seen me come home in tears too many times , heard the abuse shouted at me in the street by my delightful pupils , dealt with the times I have been physcially prevented from getting on a bus by gangs of students and seen his previously happy fun loving wife turned into a nervous wreck by her job. I don't know who is more looking forward to me leaving him or myself.

There are some bad teachers out there , I'm not one of them , however the job has turned into a living hell as far as I am concerned.

I don't just blame the kids. The curriculum they are forced to follow is shallow and inappropriate , it exists to be tested and therefore produce league tables rather than educate or teach life skills.


however classroom behaviour is terrivle because basically the kids know I can do NOTHING to them . If i give a detention then the parents phone up and complain and if the truth is told , when the pupil doesn't turn up , there is not a damn thing I can do.


6 and a half weeks and counting

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hi,

I feel for you. Teaching in a public school in Hong Kong has been quite 'soul destroying'. However, I only have just over a month left to go (thank God!). Luckily, it hasn't put me off teaching for good.

Because Canada doesn't have a national education system, the differences between provinces can sometimes be huge. In my experience, the school systems in the Maritime provinces are still decent in that there isn't as much bureaucracy as say, Ontario or the U.S. My aunt is a teacher in New Hampshire, in the U.S. The stories she tells me about schooling there send shivers down my spine.

However, I find that technology in New Brunswick schools is lagging behind. This is one area that Hong Kong has done very well in. I hope it has improved since I've been away because I am constantly using the internet, computer projector, screen and Powerpoint, etc. in my classes here.

As for elementary schools in New Brunswick...oh, how I miss the quiet, orderly manner of these schools....where kids use 'indoor voices', don't run screaming down the corridor, with the majority of students respecting the teacher...

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

This is an interesting thread - I'm enjoying reading it :)

Here in Alberta, the education boards and teachers are moving towards a showdown with a lot of the contracts (between the regional boards and the teachers) about to be renegotiated. Promises were made apparently in the years prior to our arrival, when Alberta owed lots of money to the federal government, that if the public services took a pay freeze (or even cut - I'm not sure which), that the deficit would be made up in abundance once the province was back on its feet. [I think this is correct anyway - if anyone out there needs to correct my understanding - fire away ;)).

Some public services have seen the promise kept, but others haven't - such as the teachers. This hit home in a big way earlier this year, when the public schools in our district (Parkland County) came out on strike for 4 weeks. Horrible time - for all involved - teachers, students and parents. Nothing was resolved either - parents attempted to get the government to intervene but failed - it is a local matter apparently. A new negotiating method was finally agreed upon and talks are ongoing throughout the summer. In the meantime, these teachers are still without a contract.

Parkland seemed to be viewed as a test case in lots of ways (though everyone from government to teachers union denied this). It remains to be seen what will happen in August when the majority of the contracts come up for renegotiation.

The reason for this ramble, and in terms of the topic :eek:, is that even in the short time we've been here, we've watched the motivation of many of the teachers in my son's school reach rock bottom. The majority of them care greatly for the kids and are disgusted that they feel they have been forced into this action. The board (their employers) and their union engaged in an tit-for-tit mud-slinging which enraged most parents and many of the teachers. With this continuing (albeit behind closed doors for a bit) it is easy to see why the quality of education in this part of the world may start to decline. I understand (from looking at union sites and school board sites in NB) that this trend is there also.

In education terms, maybe we've just jumped from one frying pan (the UK) into another ?:unsure: