State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hi there,

Some recent conversations I've had with fellow teachers has made me curious about the state of education (public) in the U.K. I thought I'd come here to ask (as the majority of you are from the U.K.).

I teach in Hong Kong and have a number of teacher friends who teach at the various international schools in the city. I started noticing that they all complain about their students' 'difficult' British parents. These parents are constantly second guessing them and never seem quite happy with the education their children are receiving. One of my friends is a Kindergarten teacher. The father of one of her students told her he didn't agree with how she was teaching (methodology) and even asked her how old she was! She basically told him to screw off (politely, of course) and told him to look up what she told him online if he disagreed. Well, in the end he came back and apologized because he did do some research into her teaching methods and found out that they are current with what the literature indicates in terms of teaching reading. Now, the way the parents are acting would make me think that they care a lot about their childrens' education and that schools in the U.K. are providing great education.

However...I have had a number of friends (Canadian) who have taught at schools in London under the working holiday visa program. They have said that teaching at these schools is a nightmare. The kids are awful and the staff apathetic. So, what is the real state of public education in the U.K.?

I've noticed a number of people asking about where the 'good schools' are in a given area of Canada. I honestly don't think many Canadians view schools is this manner (good vs. bad). Where I'm from, in New Brunswick, schools located in larger centres seem to have better course selection (for high schools) and maybe better extra-curricular activities. As for elementary school, I doubt you'll find THAT much difference between schools.

If you have any questions about the way we teach elementary students in Canada, feel free to ask. I'm somewhat familar with the British National Curriculum, which is outcome based. Even though each province has its own curriculum in Canada, they are all outcome-based and are quite similar to each other. Actually, I've talked to teachers from many Western countries and the curricula they use seem much like ours.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Education System is terrible. I don't teach, I manage (manipulate) Statistics .

Schools only exist to meet government targets. pupils are pretty much unteachable. They don't feel the need to participate in their own education. Nothing that happens is their responsibility.

on the bright side - I only have 7 weeks left before I quit teaching in this Country for good!

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hey,

I just want to point out that I personally don't think all British parents are 'picky' or 'difficult'. Some teachers resent anyone questioning their teaching (I don't)...at least those parents care about what's going on in their kids' schools. It was just these conversations that had me wondering about schooling in the U.K.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

It varies.....

I think if you have a child who needs extra help - its very hard to get. Children with dyslexia get left behind because the government does not provide uk schools with enough money/means to support these children in the correct way.

Children who are challenging ( difficult, naughty or just a complete pain in the bum ) seem to get more help than those children who try hard.

The uk now seems to reward those who 'play up' and they get lots of attention and those that are needing help get left behind..... I think especially those parents are then pushing for their children to reach their potential and when you start in a new school/country that is a good time to put your foot down.... prob not the right thing to do - but a lot of parents are just so fed up with the way children are taught ( i am not saying its the teachers fault ) i do not think it is - well not in most cases. Its all down to the british way of life now - can't do this, can't tell them off, and so it goes on and on.

Respectable parents want their children taught in a safe, happy environment and want them to do their best ..... however their is just so much rubbish going on here that adults just can't do a thing without somebody somewhere saying you cant do that.

Our children are in different secondary schools - both are very different. One school seems to care and the other does not!!

I think what needs to happen is that we need to re-educate ourselves and children to accept authority..... be that from parents, teachers, etc.....

What hope do we have - our police even struggle because the government ( they are all as bad as eachother ) just don't seem to care that all aspects of society are suffering and going downhill.....

Hey, its not all bad - the sun was out yesterday - but today more rain ... hey ho:D

This is of course just my view.:thumbsup:

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Totally agree - not really surprised that Parents are unhappy with the way their children are taught. I'm fed up with the way I'm forced to teach. with one of my classes I haven't "taught" them anything new information wise Since Xmas. I have been Coaching them on how to Score highly in the end of key stage tests So that our Statistics look good.

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i agree, sadly our teachers have been stripped of the ability to teach,..... in our view when a child is being taught he/she needs to have total respect for the teacher and if they knew there was going to be a repremand for disruption etc..... they would be more inclined to do as they are told and in turn we would have a better adult population - they might even have some respect for others!!

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

...or the teacher is badly trained, is below average at engagement and delivery..it's not always the kids. :rolleyes:

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Don't come to BC then - with very few exceptions, my eleven years of experience of the teachers here in this province has shown that some teachers are barely literate, dreadful in the classroom, poor depth of education themselves and do the bare minimum from internet lesson plans. Give me a UK school any day, at least the original education standards for the teacher gives some hope that they are able to teach adequately at the end of the day. I know that there are good teachers here, at least three of my five kids have been taught at one point or another by different, exceptional and motivated educators. They are few and far between, however.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

I agree that there are some bad teachers out there, but often it is the school climate which affects the teacher's performance. Take me, for example. I taught at an international school for a year. I had 17 students who were wonderful. They were polite, well-motivated and all around great kids. This gave ME motivation! My principal gave me free rein in terms of my lessons (as long as we followed our year plan). We did not have to worry about government assessments, etc.

Presently, I am teaching English at a Hong Kong public school. There are about 40 students per class, the students are mostly from low SES backgrounds, and the local English teachers' teaching methodology is decidedly 'old school'. I feel like some kind of 'new age hippie teacher' at times. Yet, I'm just following the latest teaching trends from Western countries. On most days, it's a success if I can at least keep the kids under control. There are a handful of good students in each class and I feel sorry for them because they're probably not getting the education that they deserve.

I'm not defending lazy or bad teachers. However, I do think most of us start out with the best of intentions. I think the principals have a lot of influence over the school culture. The local English teachers here have marking up to their eyeballs. They barely plan for their lessons at all. The parents equate written worksheets to learning and expect their kids to have a mountain of homework. Yet, I find in Canada many parents complain if their children get too much homework. Different cultures, I guess.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

I agree with much of what you say. I trained in the early eighties, when the kids were still a few steps away from being feral. ;) I know most teachers start out with the best of intentions, but I guess I have watched my kids education delivery get worse and worse over the years and it is worrying. I do know (and readily accept) that BC is notorious for poor standards. I have seen first hand how different provinces have way different standards and how a principal can make or break a school. Interesting post. Thanks!

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I found with my daughters UK schools that the class sizes were to big for the teachers to teach effectively - if more than one kid was having trouble with the concept of whatever was being taught then there wasn't the time to deal with all the kids as well as control the class and help out the kids that were struggling etc etc. The teachers seemed worn out and it felt as a parent that the only important stuff was the SAT tests.

Here the teachers seem to have time for the kids and the parents (the teachers are more approachable) the subjects seem to be taught for a longer period of time - making it stick in the kids brain and when my daughter has had trouble with a concept she has gone for a lunchtime extra help session or on one occasion she stayed on at school to do her homework because she wasn't sure what was expected and there were teachers around to help. The schools here also seem in better condition and better equipped with a wider choice of activities and subjects to choose from.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

<steps into the room, looks around, thinks of wife, walks out again>

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

thanks sweetie:wub:

unfortunately my husband has seen me come home in tears too many times , heard the abuse shouted at me in the street by my delightful pupils , dealt with the times I have been physcially prevented from getting on a bus by gangs of students and seen his previously happy fun loving wife turned into a nervous wreck by her job. I don't know who is more looking forward to me leaving him or myself.

There are some bad teachers out there , I'm not one of them , however the job has turned into a living hell as far as I am concerned.

I don't just blame the kids. The curriculum they are forced to follow is shallow and inappropriate , it exists to be tested and therefore produce league tables rather than educate or teach life skills.


however classroom behaviour is terrivle because basically the kids know I can do NOTHING to them . If i give a detention then the parents phone up and complain and if the truth is told , when the pupil doesn't turn up , there is not a damn thing I can do.


6 and a half weeks and counting

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hi,

I feel for you. Teaching in a public school in Hong Kong has been quite 'soul destroying'. However, I only have just over a month left to go (thank God!). Luckily, it hasn't put me off teaching for good.

Because Canada doesn't have a national education system, the differences between provinces can sometimes be huge. In my experience, the school systems in the Maritime provinces are still decent in that there isn't as much bureaucracy as say, Ontario or the U.S. My aunt is a teacher in New Hampshire, in the U.S. The stories she tells me about schooling there send shivers down my spine.

However, I find that technology in New Brunswick schools is lagging behind. This is one area that Hong Kong has done very well in. I hope it has improved since I've been away because I am constantly using the internet, computer projector, screen and Powerpoint, etc. in my classes here.

As for elementary schools in New Brunswick...oh, how I miss the quiet, orderly manner of these schools....where kids use 'indoor voices', don't run screaming down the corridor, with the majority of students respecting the teacher...

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

This is an interesting thread - I'm enjoying reading it :)

Here in Alberta, the education boards and teachers are moving towards a showdown with a lot of the contracts (between the regional boards and the teachers) about to be renegotiated. Promises were made apparently in the years prior to our arrival, when Alberta owed lots of money to the federal government, that if the public services took a pay freeze (or even cut - I'm not sure which), that the deficit would be made up in abundance once the province was back on its feet. [I think this is correct anyway - if anyone out there needs to correct my understanding - fire away ;)).

Some public services have seen the promise kept, but others haven't - such as the teachers. This hit home in a big way earlier this year, when the public schools in our district (Parkland County) came out on strike for 4 weeks. Horrible time - for all involved - teachers, students and parents. Nothing was resolved either - parents attempted to get the government to intervene but failed - it is a local matter apparently. A new negotiating method was finally agreed upon and talks are ongoing throughout the summer. In the meantime, these teachers are still without a contract.

Parkland seemed to be viewed as a test case in lots of ways (though everyone from government to teachers union denied this). It remains to be seen what will happen in August when the majority of the contracts come up for renegotiation.

The reason for this ramble, and in terms of the topic :eek:, is that even in the short time we've been here, we've watched the motivation of many of the teachers in my son's school reach rock bottom. The majority of them care greatly for the kids and are disgusted that they feel they have been forced into this action. The board (their employers) and their union engaged in an tit-for-tit mud-slinging which enraged most parents and many of the teachers. With this continuing (albeit behind closed doors for a bit) it is easy to see why the quality of education in this part of the world may start to decline. I understand (from looking at union sites and school board sites in NB) that this trend is there also.

In education terms, maybe we've just jumped from one frying pan (the UK) into another ?:unsure:

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The main problem with education in the UK is that it is so variable. I live in an area where to local authority has made such a hash of childrens services that it has been taken over by a government appointed "task force". The school that my children attend however is held up as en example of good practice.

I am planning a trip to Nova Scotia soon to look at schools (elementary and high schools) in preparation for our move over there. One thing that I find difficult is the lack of published information about schools. In the UK we have performence tables with number s of A* to C grades, levels achieved at KS2 and 3, value added scores and ofsted reports.

Does anyone know what performance data is available in Nova Scotia for the different levels of school. Also is there as much variation between schools and areas as we have in the UK.

I intend to look at independant schools as well as state school. Does anyone have any experience of independant school in Nova Scotia.

Too many questions in one go I suppose, but any info would be helpful.

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Ok guys - it's my soapbox time :eek:

I wouldnt consider our UK location as inner city - we are about 7 miles outside the Centre of Manchester - and have made this point becuase of my comments that follow.

We have a range of schools in our area including state, catholic and Independent schools - some have good and some have bad reputations. We as parents try and choose the school which best suits our childrens needs - some kids are artistic yet not academic and therefore need to go to a school such as a school which has been awarded an Arts College Status. Our choices then get taken away from us by the local education authority and the child gets put into a school what isnt suitable and therefore will be unhappy for 5 years of their life.

Take my 12 year old.

Last August got job offer from Canada for my hubby and then she started at her second choice school. For the first month my daugter could barely sleep and hardly ate to the point that her trousers were hanging off her body - and she is not a fat kid to start with.

The schools attitude was well it's not our problem that she doesnt like the food in the canteen send her with some butties (BAD ATTITUDE !) so did the packed lunch thing for her and the situation did not improve. Pastoral Manager was well its your fault as she knows that she is going to live in Canada ! Concerned we sat her down and tried to get her to see that she didnt have to put up with the school just keep your head down and get through it - the education committee of the local authority would not move her as they knew we were going to live in Canada.

My daughter has been reduced to tears so often being told that she is ugly fat thick and all sorts of things by pupils in the school and when I asked for help the school did nothing at all.

In the end she ended up not even speaking to me and went to the doctor as we decided that she had gone into a depression about the way school life was. This made us decide that she had to leave the school and the only way that this could be done was to send her out to her dad who is in Canada on a WP.

Whist at her Secondary school she witnessed extreme bullying, teachers on an ego trip, F words being used by both teacher and pupils,pupils throwing chairs at teachers and bullying from a teacher - oh yes she was bullied by a teacher for having a note to excuse her from PE when she injured her ankle !

She has now been in Canada and in school for 5 weeks and what a difference in my daughter - rings me every day to say how fab everything is at school. She just did her end of year Grade 7 exams and got fab results and cant get over the difference in the kids in her class.

What is the difference ????


Respect - you can breed respect in your child and it doesnt cost a penny and alot of parents who sit on their arses all day doing nothing breed disrespect into their kids by the way they live and then this feeds down to your own child :curse:

Rant over - night

gaynor
x

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Completely agree that it is down to respect. one of the major problems I have is that Pupils think I'm being Sarcastic When I'm polite. I was always brought up to Say please, thank you etc. I have actually had pupils complain to my line manager that I " was taking the P***"- my Crime? I had said "thankyou" when they returned Some equipment!

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well the day before Phil flew out to Canada Hannah was crying in class and one of the pupils asked the teacher to come and make sure that she was ok.

So he asked Hannah what the matter was and she said she was just a bit upset as Dad was going to work in Canada and she didnt know when she was going to see him again - which was the truth.

He turned around to Hannah and said "Get over get on with it and stop whining !"

So if there are teachers in our schools in the UK who disrespect pupils this way I understand why some pupils can play up to it - am not saying it would be right. But my daughter has been taught to respect elders and teachers etc. so she sat there for the rest of the lesson cried the 2 mile walk home !

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I felt the education system or the school or the teachers (maybe all three) failed my kid because he was ignored at school. This was because he was not a trouble-maker, bright but not brilliant, simply did nor stand out in any way, so he was ignored.

When his marks dropped off, nobody gave a S**T to be honest, and we as his parents were not even told before it was almost too late. His maths teacher eventually told us he was doing badly because he did not attend classes, and "if he can't be bothered why should I" ...... Nobody thought to enquire what was wrong with the lad, who had obviously shown potential before.

In the end, he had to retake his first year of A levels, with extra tuition from a private, very good but VERY expensive tutor, (thankyou grandparents!!!!!) and he ended up just missing two A grades by 1 or 2 marks!

So now he has just been accepted into his second year engineering degree course at University of Calgary and it is frankly NO thanks to his secondary education in Britain! :mad:

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

Hi everyone,
;)
I thought to just add some personnal experience to this subject.
I have had the opportunity to shadow my own child in an elementary school in Cambridge. Met quite a number of staff and teachers. OH! by the way we have had to move from Cornwall where our family journey began for our son's therapy;..this was because schools in Cornwall and Devon just simply wouldn't want to know of any "Independent "programmes/therapists coming into their schools to help kids needing some form of differentiated support. So....some friends of ours informed us that Cambridge could potentially be a bit better and some children were able to go to school on a part time basis with support at least initially,...somenthing Cornwall just wouldn't entertain....so we gave it a try....only to be ....well disappointing as the struggle to have any form of differentiated curriculum just proved to much and with no future either!! ...As a result of that we looked outside the box and continue to seek a place where differentiated programmes do exist and kids potential isn,t just going to waste!!!....hopefully and we are confident that in Canada we have found just that!!!
In sum education in the UK is in these crucial situatiuons, presently reflecting a desperate need for some sort of development in professional and specialized programmes for teachers, which would include greater emphasis on special needs kids.
Whilst the "inclusion dream" goes on for our mainstream schools here at home, the reality as far as i can see is that, so many children are simply struggling to manage in the bewildering environment of all these large schools! As a consequence some will etiher face being bullied or segregated to special units.
Furthemore and this is only my personnal opinion, i also have the distinct impression that regretably our government's creation of the "new kind of school" ideology geared to increase academics, has significantly made it even harder for children with extra needs to survive and stand a chance to adjust.
We'll hopefully will be in a position where we will be able to reloccate again and its our biggest wish to enable our child to develop all his potential, work towards an independent, happy and healthy life in a supportive an nurturing environment.
Bottom line, it seems to be that our schools in the UK just are so dependent on their position in the league tables, that it will always be hard to find one likely to welcome those who will be somehow lower achievers!!
That's one side of our state of education. I,m hoping not to have to stress to much over this for much longer ....fingers crossed!! By the way, here is a nice quote, funny enough from "John Wayne" .... and he says:
"By working hard old man, i hope to make somenthing good one day. I haven't yet, but i am pursuing it and fghting for it ... Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when arrives, and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned somenthing from yesterday!!:thumbsup:
Kind Regards,

Carla

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My son was the only one of my 3 children to attend school in Australia. Before that, he attended his first year in the UK. I often questioned the Teachers teaching on a few things, to their resentment, and they didn't like answering to me. My son was doing well when in Australia. I thought generally the schooling was a little slower, but IMO that's better as the kids seemed to get a bit longer to grasp the concept of the idea they are being taught.

When we returned to the UK, my son was put through a test at his new school, to see which level he would be at, and therefore which set he would be in for each subject. He came out top in every test and was then placed in top set for every class.

Within a month, I had his teachers asking me to attend meetings as he was falling behind with his work :blink: It turned out that he 'understood' the Aussie schooling ways and couldnt cope with the UK teaching methods anymore, i.e :

Australia = 1x9=9, 2x9=18, 3x9=27 etc. (it forms a pattern easy to work out, each answer adds up to 9 etc. When we left my son knew all his times tables by heart.

UK = 1x9=(1x10=10-1)=9, 2x9=(2x10=20-2)=18 etc :confused:

Even I questioned the Maths teacher on this one, and was told in no uncertain terms that the Governments guidelines for teaching are strict and should not be altered for any one student. I was shocked.

That was 3 years ago, and my son has still not regained his confidence in school, is still misunderstanding methods (looking at his work, I am too !) and his times tables is still a challenge to him :(

He is now in the bottom sets for all subjects, even though all his teachers say he is the perfect student and tries so hard to 'understand'

And this is UK schooling :curse:

Re: State of Education in the U.K.?
 

I'm with you there :)

I hear so many stories of the same thing now.

I now have my 2 daughters at school and quite frankly they too are ignored, because they are 'average'. They don't have special needs, aren't rude, aren't disruptive, dont have problems at home, etc etc

Only the 'Special' kids get taught it seems ;)

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I've heard of this method of teaching them to kids, it's not good is it. It stems from the fact that some people in the DoE have decided that rote learning is bad so you cannot teach the kids their tables anymore as that's all it is rote learning. I'm sorry but that rote learning has stood me in great stead, and I'm sure everyone else who learned their times tables like it. All these new fangled teaching methods are just garbage thought up by people who've never spent time in the classroom.

It is unfortunately true though that teachers are not given the ability to alter how they teach these things, the government sets what and how and that's all there is to it. Rubbish system.

Just remember one thing about kids now in the education system. They are not being taught useful skills. They are not being educated for the benefit of the children. They are being taught how to pass exams, that's it. Kids have to pass exams and schools have to meet targets, there's nothing more to it. Education for the childs benefit no longer exists in the British education system I'm afraid, government has seen to that.

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Talk about over-complicating things. I am hopeless at maths at the best of times but I at least learnt my times tables. I wouldn't have stood a chance using this method.

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wow - it seems he was listening everytime I cam home and ranted at him - thanks dear

:heart::heart: :heart::heart:

hehe two and a half weeks to go!!!!!