Shard

Are the Canadian anti-abortionists are objecting on religious grounds? I remember there was that protest phase with Dr Morgentaler many years back, and I really thought the issue had gone away. Even Ireland of all places has finally modernised. Of course it's pro-choice, although that phrase has been constructed to counter the pro-life phrase of the anti-abortion crowd.

dbd33

Some of them, yes, the efforts to stamp out sex education in Ontario were driven but religion. But in the main I think scilly is correct; the new acceptability of misogyny and racism in the US is reflected in Canada because, in general, whatever the US does, Canada does a bit later. I don't know if Scheer has the direct ties to the evangelic right in the US that Harper had. I imagine he does but haven't bothered researching since it doesn't matter to me why he's a Neanderthal nut job, he's enough of one for me to run a mile from him as it is.

Shard

It's very backwards thinking. At least Trudeau will counter that kind of creeping conservatism.

By the way Neanderthals were an intelligent species, and we Eurasians interbred with them (and so carry 3-4% of their DNA). No longer a pejorative term.

dbd33

It's pejorative in Canada and will be for another 20 years.

Shard

Ah. Thanks for the heads up.

dbd33

That was intended to be a joke about Canada being behind the times. The Guardian says Neanderthal is no longer pejorative but I've no idea if that's true, the Guardian likely doesn't recognise "gay" as pejorative either.

Shard

I took it as a joke. I think. Anyway, here too the term is still used pejoratively, but less and less. I imagine the Guardian classes "gay" as a term of respect.

BristolUK

This backs up Scilly

As with some other matters, NB was way behind the rest of Canada. Still is in terms of practical availability.

There used to be a permanent anti-abortion picket outside one of the hospitals here a few years ago. Across the street but very visible to anyone arriving or leaving.

dbd33

That may, or may not be the case, but the basic human rights under discussion here; same-sex marriage, access to abortion, aren't a matter of left or right wing thought. It's quite possible to be a Conservative and not support repression. Scheer has a strange concept of personal morality not shared by, for example, arch neo-con Boris Johnson.

Shard

He's a religious nut...isn't he?

dbd33

I imagine so but it really doesn't matter if he has personally decided to tell women what to do or if a man in a dress told him to think that. It's not a rational position.

scilly

I think there is one man who is still picketing a clinic in Vancouver almost every day, rain or shine.

What really scared me was that we were exposed in our own home to some tactics, one accidentally and one deliberate but in error.

We live near a church which did not then (and probably still does not) support abortion. In the late 1980s there were lots of big demonstrations in Vancouver, and there was to be one on a particular Sunday around 1988/89. My daughter was around 14/15, the age when girls can be particularly impressed or extremely upset by certain things, so I was glad that she was a church with her father that morning when I heard a lot of shouting and noise on the street alongside the house.

I went to the window, and there were all the parishioners pouring out of the church, waving signs and shouting to each other as they arranged which cars were to be used to get downtown to the demonstration. They had apparently been treated to a really "inspiring" talk in church, and were practising the slogans to shout. I literally had signs waving right at my house.

Accidental? Yes, but scarey.

The second event was about a year later. I had seen a letter in the local newspaper advocating for pro-choice, and asking for reasonableness and dialogue rather than hate. It was well written and short and to the point. I noticed in passing that the writer had the same first and last names as my OH, with a very minor difference in spelling ................ but so do a lot of other people. It wasn't him though!

OH and I came home the next day from work, daughter had stayed on at school for some reason, thankfully once again, because there was a message on the answer machine which we managed to delete before she heard it. It was the most vile denunciation of that letter that you could imagine, threatening all kinds of things would happen to someone who dared to express the pro-choice views.

I never even thought of reporting it, just deleted it as fast as I could, then wrote a letter to the paper basically asking that anyone who wished to reply to a letter do so through the paper, and most certainly not take the first name in the phone book and leave an extremely nasty message on an answer machine.

The paper published my letter the next day! We had no further messages left for us.

That was a deliberate vile message left for us by mistake. But very scarey to think that someone could respond like that.

I should say that neither OH nor I advertised what our beliefs were, and only discussed what was going on in the city and the country, and what had happened with us, with very close friends who were of similar views.

scrubbedexpat091

I hated living in Abby and Chilliwack, just too religious and conservative for my taste. And I always got sick in the summers there due to poor air quality, especially in Chilliwack.

I didn't really notice any real hippy culture in Abby in my years there, a lot of fake hippy types as in dress up like a hippy and smoke pot, but they all tended to be conservative and closed minded.

And the hospitals out that way, rather take a taxi to VGH then deal with either of them again, I will never live in the Fraser Health authority region again either.

I have no love for the Fraser Valley.

CanadaJimmy

Yeah, Langley has a fair bit of that as well. It seems like conservative politics are closely linked to churches, of which there are many out in the Fraser Valley bible belt. I guess because religion likes to paint things as bad and white, good and evil, just as many conservative politicians do, coupled with the fact churches continue to fight to avoid paying any taxes.

I read an interesting story recently about how a class of 11-12 year old kids at a private school in Aldergrove held a mock election. The entire class except one voted conservative, with many of the kids referencing money being given to the undeserving or lazy, values that had been baked into them. All the kids come from privaledged christian families. There's a lot of misconception that young conservatives don't exist, but entire generations of them are being raised as we speak.

caretaker

I think there's been a Klan presence in the LM for a long time (I was first told of it in the early 80's), I suspect directing their hate at the Sikh community, I suspect out of jealousy over their success in the agriculture business.