Piff Poff

Views and opinions greatly received!

Dream when we moved to Canada was to own and run a campground. Slow realization that the dream would be out of reach and actually quite like the security of OH's wages with his job.

Winters in Alberta have started to be a real drag. Start the thinking towards a different province when DD finishes school - 2-5 year game plan.

See a small acreage out of town up for auction, go to bank, sort out a biggish mortgage, don't win house but realise the room would be nice (for the cars if nothing else).

Mr Piff finds another auction for an Acreage(read farm) in Delburne, is going to go to auction (it's actually really nicely located right on the lake) Piff really worried as she won't be there. Doesn't really want to be Farmer Piff!

Piff finds out that the campground they have always liked is up for sale, went to look today, it's within reach.

Can anyone give ball park figures on septic tank costs, well (relocation?) costs, modular/log/RTM home costs?

What's the first step on building your own home - who do you go to talk to?

mandymoochops

bloody hell mate your life is a whirl!!!!!

so just to clarify - are you buying the land and the campground seperately, or just the campground and thinking of building a home on it???

Why don't you come over and i'll take you over to my sis in laws - they have 50 acres on which they built a house and last year they built a campground. You can talk to her about the ins and outs of both building a house and running a campground.

They also have a wood supply business so will do you a deal on wood for your campground lol!

Piff Poff

40 acres with existing campground but no home atm! My take you up on the offer, all whirling around my head, I think a glass or two of wine is required

mandymoochops

So where abouts is the campground is that around here too?

I think you should ask the realtor if it's zoned or whatever it os, to be able to build a house on first.

Is it a fully serviced campground - if so then it will make getting electricity to the house easier, and the provisions for water etc.

Aviator

We looked at a campground business as an investment years ago. A quick way to make very little. Something for the family to do while I was away and a retirement project. It is a lifestyle business, asset is in the land, only way to realise any significant gain is when selling. Quickly gave that idea up.

From my research, if you want to make money, this is not the way. If you like that sort of thing, don't mind being on call 24/7 and the hard work, might be worth a go. Do the numbers before jumping in, business plan, cash flow, ROI projections.

Septic fields, especially commercial size can be $25k+
Modular homes, $35-$80k plus untility hook ups.
Wells can run $15 to $30k, depending how large casing you go for, how deep you have to go. Not all wells produce enough water, iron content can be a problem with some. Get a water test done.

mandymoochops

I'd agree a single campground is not going to make you rich. If you've ever been out to Ol Macdonalds then that one is more profitable - however its more like a mini butlins rather than 'camping'.

http://www.olmacdonalds.com/

You have to have spin off businesses with it I would say - convenience store / firewood / gift stores etc

Atlantic Xpat

If you still have an idea of moving to another province in 2-5 years then you need to go into this with your eyes very much wide open and governed by your head not your heart. Can you build up a business in 5 years say and sell it for substantially more than you have invested in it? That's the key question you need to consider, and consider realistically.

If this will be a longer term thing, then your payback period can be extended naturally. However, maintaining a campsite during the winter is not going to make you feel any better about the long AB winters!

Almost Canadian

Go for it. What's life about if not flitting from one thing to another. I am sure the winters in Alberta that you say you hate so much will no longer be an issue.

Lorna_D

sounds exiting It's something I would love to do.

Listen to the advice from the other posters because they all make sense and a trip to MMC's family sounds like very good advice (and an excuse for a meet up)

Good luck.

Piff Poff

So a little more info. It's already an existing business. It is small. There is a well on the actual campground but not on the potential home site. There is electric to each stall - one stall with year round resident has own septic, there is another year round resident. The business brings in 3 times more than I do at my existing job. OH would still continue with his job. There are no washroom facilities. Maintenance would be emptying garbage, cutting grass, collecting site fees and keeping trees trimmed back to keep the area tidy. It will never be an Ole Macdonalds.

The way I'm seeing it, is not to get rich but to have a gorgeous home on a gorgeous lot (which would add value to the land), OH could have a gorgeous shop with no headaches of where he's going to put the new car. The business would pay the mortgage, I wouldn't have to work at Eddie Bauer, DD could continue at her school, we wouldn't rush into another huge move as we would be staying local, it would give us more time to decide exactly where we want to be.

I could quite easily get carried away, looking forward to talking to OH about it all again later, don't want to end up financially stretched like we were a couple of years ago, so this morning I have my extremely, I'm not brave, is this a bad idea, cautious head on. It's scary stuff

R I C H

You have to be realistic about what a home based business like this entails. During the camping season, your ability to go anywhere is severely limited, unless you take on staff to help. You're tied to being around to pander to the publics needs and wants, 7 days a week. No matter what rules you put in place, what your opening hours are, someone will ignore them, guaranteed.

I owned an equestrian business for 5 years when I first moved here, and the horse/property care (32 acres) was the easiest to deal with. The general public were hugely time consuming and demanding. You have very little privacy or personal space when you live on your business premises.

You say the business 'brings in 3 times more than I do at my existing job' - what does this mean? Is that actual net profit after all your operating expenses? Once you've taken salary, paid taxes on it, are you still 3x better off? Do the hours required realistically mean you're earning 3x the hourly wage you're currently on?

Everyone has a different idea of what a 'gorgeous home' actually means, but IME building my own house, you're going to need hundreds of thousands to realize that ambition, on top of the asking price of the existing property.

Just my 2c

Almost Canadian

How do you plan to deal with your hatred of the winters in Alberta? I have no idea about the campground issues and will leave that for others to comment upon. I thought that your hatred of winters in Alberta was worth moving Provinces over.

Piff Poff

RICH I was hoping for your view

The campground income would realistically pay for the mortgage and any utilities and have spare to go towards new home finance, my existing job wouldn't pay that at our current home.

From what we can ascertain at present there is one caretaker, that will be jobless when the campground is sold (this is what we have been told), it is feasible that it would be a Mom and Pop business.

A gorgeous home for me in this specific location would be a 3 bedroom log style home, OH would want a large shop, enough for 6 cars inside would be lovely.

We still have lots of things to talk about and we have to weigh up if we actually want to do this right now or carry on waiting until we move proper. The whole idea when we moved was to buy a small campground, one reason why I haven't tried to have a career here is because I'm waiting, still waiting for our own business, I am however not prepared to jump into a fire!

Not sure how much looking after a campground takes in the winter, depends on whether we continue it all year round, we could insist on vacant possession. Most of them around here close Oct long to May long.

Piff Poff

OH and I have talked long and hard about this for the past few weeks (before the campgound!). It is OH's reaction in the winter that upsets me. OH can't do what he wants to do as he doesn't have room and heat to do it. This has opened up the idea of a small acreage, with a heated shop, so he can carry on polishing cars at midnight if he so chooses, it was whilst looking for acreages that we found that this campground has come on the market.

If we stay in our current house we will move Province sooner rather than later, if however something else comes up and it makes winter life better then we will have more thinking and planning time.

I am flip flopping all over the place right now, almost to the point of lets just stay where we are until teen Piff finishes school.

Aviator

Total income - Total cots = how much you actually make/hours worked. Don't be fooled by gross revenue, look at nett revenue. Seek the advice of an accountant. It could be money well spent.

Take into account capital cost of property purchase, capital costs for improvements and R & M, machinery.

How easy is it to get out of, ie sell down the road. Campgrounds are not easy to get rid of. The Koa one we looked at was on the market for years and I believe ended up selling at way under asking, close to land value. Until you do a business plan and crunch numbers I would not consider putting in an offer. Don't believe you will not have headaches over this, dealing with the public will be nothing but.

Maintenance would include meeting regulations (safety & health), roads, sites, septic (replacing or fixing). Water and septic need to meet local health regulations

Don't forget advertising, insurance, utilities, licensing, cash reserve.

You will only know if it is viable once you have done a business plan.

http://www.openforum.com/idea-hub/to...n-guy-kawasaki