Shortage of workers
 

Apparently many countries including Canada cannot fill vacancies and employers are struggling to find workers.
I came across this ad on Reddit posted for a job in Winnipeg for a Customer Sales Rep where they were asking for 5 years experience and a Bachelors degree (non specific). It sells Natural Health products. salary $14 to $15 an hour.

https://preview.redd.it/rf4o7y8frf87...=webp&f81177b0

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Not offering competitive wage and putting in ridiculous educational and experience requirements will do that.

There was a dog food manufacturer in Ontario on CBC yesterday complaining about not being able to find workers, well gee lets see your only offering $15/hr, your location is not transit accessible, and workers need to commute by car, so there are 2 reasons why they struggle, but also seemed like a piss poor work environment as people are apparently quitting mid day, several red flags, but CBC ran with it under the guise of people are lazy and don't want to work.

And I think some of these employers simply want more employer friendly TFW rules, they don't actually want to pay competitive wage.

Like when I worked at the airport, my company was always short handed, we struggled to find employees at $17/$18 per hour, but you had Air Canada union complaining nobody wanted to work there, well gee your offering min wage to start and 0 to 40 hours per week, pretty obvious why your struggling, lowest starting pay of any company, no guarantee of hours each week, all for min wage starting, at Air Canada wage level would take about 5-7 years to get to what my companies starting wage was, and we could guarantee at least 40 hours per week.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

I don't have a Bachelors Degree so I wouldn't be able to apply even if I had 5 years experience. Oh well luckily I am employed at an hourly salary just a tad higher than that one even without a degree.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Does CBSA require a bachelors degree these days?


I could do that job, the one you mention, but I neither have the experience nor the degree. I have been turned down by companies I am already employed by with good reviews from supervisors for better positions as they would rather hire a fresh from university with no experience over an existing employee without a degree, the whole system is stupid really.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Not essential to have a degree but preferred and some are hired with just Grade 12. It was once described to me having a non role specific university degree shows that you can be an adult, you showed up for class, passed enough of the tests and exams, all without a teacher standing over you.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

I understand the concept, but it puts those of us who are simply not university material at a huge disadvantage.

US airlines and pilots are similiar, the degree isn't what makes a good pilot, but airlines prefer pilots with degrees now over those without, well sometimes, sometimes there is too much of a pilot shortage so they take anyone, but in leaner times when airlines can be picky, they will prefer a degree over no degree even if both pilots are equally qualified in flying skills.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

This hiring someone with a degree over a more experienced person or employee without one is nothing new.

I can remember my father back in the 1950s saying something similar ..........

He was Foreman in charge of a brass finishing foundry in a company making many very specialised things, including huge vats for commercial kitchens. He had worked his way up from the bottom, helped probably by being in reserved occupation during the war, making either bombs or planes.

He would complain bitterly about a new hire made by the company supposedly to improve things in the foundry or somewhere else, but knew nothing of the practical work so Dad had to show them how to do everything

Re: Shortage of workers
 

The add is most likely a hoax. Real sales jobs are never on an hourly wage, but with a commission. Also I doubt very much that they find a single applicant with a Bachelor degree for a salary of $14 to $15.

Anybody posting such an add isn't struggling to find workers, but struggling with his / her own incompetence.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Don't under estimate the cheapness of Canadian companies, and companies like to add sales to titles when really its just an hourly job without any commission.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Many businesses will pay more for labour, however consumers will end up paying more for the goods. I have read all this baloney about if a business does not pay a living wage without putting up prices doesn't deserve to be in business, clearly these folks have no understanding of economics. If a business uses a cost plus business model as opposed to what the market will bear, as costs go up and 'plus' is constant prices increase. Margins in some industries are extremely tight, more so at present with multiple price hikes in raw materials and delays, increases in shipping costs.
High labour costs will also create a larger pool of unemployable, those who are not productive and are not cost effective will find it hard to get and keep a job and fall by the wayside, putting a higher burden on the government (taxpayer).

Re: Shortage of workers
 

I've had to turn down workers with degrees who couldn't do the job without putting up an argument about how to do it. Ability and willingness to follow simple instructions is #1 on most job requirements. I send the rejects back to the office and phone my team leader while they're enroute and explain this one is just not janitor material.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

We had a few of those types at the airport job I had, they thought having a degree meant they should be paid more, and that they were smarter than the rest of us, they rarely lasted long.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

In the USA no one is mentioning that applicant shortage might have something to do with 600,000 extra people being dead now. I know they are weighted to older people, but younger people died too, in the US and Canada.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Where I work has just been trying to hire. Minimum wage plus tips upto 30 hrs open availability (days, evening, weekend's) 1st girl that started 17 years old (Canadian born and bred) decided she did want to work weekend's. New one starting - another Filipina. I don't mind working with Filipinas, they have a similar sense of humor once we get through the language barrier.

there is 1 Canadian, 1 Mexican, 1 Chinese, 1 Brit and 6 Filipina where I am across 2 stores. The managers work 13 hours a day for $19 plus tips. No overtime, banked hours if they do over 64 a week and no benefits.
the manager position was offered to me, I didn't want to work more than 40 hours a week.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

You hit the nail on the head.
The high minimum wage has been one of the causes of this issue. I was helping run three family businesses many years ago. One of the was a bar. When the minimum wage went up. Instead of having three full time waitresses. We went down to one full time, one part-time on call, bar staff helping the floor when it got busy plus menus going up. The cost of good also went up. Its not that businesses don't pay more. It does not make it economically viable for the business to do so.
Also it effected the people that earn above the minimum wage as they are in competition with minimum wage people.

Minimum wage is not a wage that is meant to be lived on. If one wants to earn more money then they need to learn or develop a skill/trade that the market needs. That is the incentive. This should be taught in schools.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Businesses are not entitled to anyone's labor, if a business can't or isn't willing to pay a wage that attracts workers, that isn't the fault of workers.

If these businesses cannot even attract workers at min wage, well they are clearly not offering an appropriate wage for the market they are operating in.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Who is it meant for? Children living at home only?
What if everyone gets those skills, how do you then attract people to the none skilled jobs?
Although I suspect there are people incapable of aquiring those skills, what happens to them? Should government supplement the businesses wages?

Re: Shortage of workers
 

No you see those unable to gain skills, should be exploited at a lower wage so business owners can have cheap labor.


Wasn't the whole point of min wage originally at least in the US was to ensure a basic standard of living for workers?

Min wage in 1970's British Columbia a single person could rent an apartment (before anyone chimes in about this, I have researched and found rental ads in archives of newspapers that indicate this was easily doable) with about 40 hours of work, now at min wage, good luck renting an apartment in Vancouver or surrounds, move they say, small communities offer less employment, and rents are not much cheaper, rents have increased substantially more than wages in general, this is what causes a large chunk of issues for people now, basic need like housing has become a luxury.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Who is arguing that they are entitled to anyones labour? Please post a source. Who is blaming the workers?
It is government policy of a high minimum wage. Where is the money that a business pays comes from? Is it the magic money tree? It comes from the sale of goods and services.
If the delivery driver is paid a high mimumin wage. The cost of good goes up to make a economically feasible for delivery. People do not work for free. That is cold at a higher price. If the not the margin goes down. From that margin a business owner has to pay it workers. The money has to come from somewhere.

Everyone does not get those skills. Not everyone can do everything, people specilalize in a skill. Lets give a example. If a non skilled worker comes to Canada. He works and studies part time. He/She acquires new skill/profression that is in demand. Hence they move up to a higher paying job that needs that skill. Then the business owner needs low skilled labour again. Guess what, lots of people turning 18 everyday that need part time work. Lots of people semi retiring that want low skilled work. Also lots of unskilled labour locally and globally. Those people can immigrate.
Now those people that moved for the low skilled work need services to help them. Guess who might help them. Its the people that moved up.
As for people incapable of acquiring skills. Everyone can acquire a some sort of skill. Unless some sort of severe disability. Thats when there is government help or help from the community.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

In the 50s and most of the 60s very few people in the UK had university degrees. I worked in the drawing office of a large engineering company and no one had a degree.
A HNC was the good to have but not essential. Most of us were ex apprentices and were given time off to go to classes to gain a HNC. I guess not worth much these days.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

I've been working since 1996, highest wage I have made is $17 roughly, hardly enough to have a good life, sure I gained skills along the way, but nobody cares about those skills, they of no financial worth to any employer apparently.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

The idea that it's reasonable for firms to pay full time workers less than a living wage would be a lot more palatable had executive pay not exploded since Gordon Gecko told us greed is good. The median US worker is paid $19.33 per hour. Jeff Bezos is paid $149,353 a minute. The medium US worker pays 22.4% of that in income in tax. Jeff Bezos pays 21%. Amazon is not unique, many companies could do more for their workers by reducing executive pay without sending management to the food bank.

Here are some stats: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/

Re: Shortage of workers
 

If my skills and education was recognized in Canada, I would be working in an office and probably bored out of my mind. However I live in Red Neck Alberta and unless you are great at boasting about your skills which is incredibly Canadian your not gonna get far.i refused to go and pay $16k to do an admin course to get a Canadian recognised qualification.

I only want to work part time. My job gives me that, I work 5 hours Monday to Friday evenings and weekends off. I'm tired of my job. I've been looking for something new. It's incredible what employers are asking for and only paying minimum wage. I'm better off with the devil I know.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Business is not entitled to labour, as much as workers are not entitled to a job. The world owes no one a living!
Market forces will dictate what is paid, as it dictates price. The increase in min wage will ripple on to the previously higher paid workers and increase costs, suppliers will have increased labour costs as will sellers. Compounded through the supply chain, consumers will be paying many times over for the increases, much the same as BC consumers are paying for compounded PST since BC got rid of HST. Basic economics. A worker needs to produce more than they cost for a business to be viable, without that the business shuts down (=no jobs) or prices have to increase (=increased cost of living). When the cost of goods increase, the benefits of increased pay diminishes. Wages and prices cannot reflect the cost of housing, this is unworkable.

Minimum wage is some parts of BC is above the living wage for these areas. Covid displaced workers, some went to other industries, some considered they were better off taking the CERB rather than working.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microeconomics

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Define a living wage?
Jeff Bazo is paid that much because he creates a lot of jobs, subs jobs and hundreds if not thousands of industries benefit because of him. He generates a of wealth for his shareholders. Nothing stopping Amazon workers doing the same. They just need to have Jeff Bezos 'skills'.

Many companies could do more. Its based on competition. If I remember correctly, there was a oil boom here in Calgary. It was impossible to find workers. Workers would ditch jobs as another company would pay more and have more benefits.

Wage is dictated by the market. Amazon pays a low wage as the work is low skilled and can be replaced.
Executives are paid a lot by the wealth they create. If they don't create wealth, then shareholders can remove them.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Market forces don't dictate minimum wage. Politicians do to appease those who cannot understand economics. In return they receive votes, salary, a fat pension and chicken pot pie.

Let me you a real example of how dangerous and inaccurate of what you have written. I will go back to that bar example I gave in a previous post.
When minimum wage was increased to $15 a hour. We can't afford to hold three full time waitresses in the evening. So your most experienced and skilled waitress that gets paid say $17 a hour. They get lets go. You keep one for $15 a hour. The other goes on call part time. The 3rd gets paid less than min wage, no benefits, cash under the table on call.
Lets break it down. The wage was $12 a hour, with a $3 increase x7 hour shift seven days a week. For two employees thats $294 a week, thats $1176 month or $14,112 a year.
Overnight where does that business find that from? The magic money tree?

Not only that, the cost of wholesale goods go up. Your wholesale supplies will increase their prices to pay their staff a 'living wage too. That increase goes onto my business at the end of the month. I have to find that money from somewhere. So prices go up. When that happens, customers will tip less. The staff that work, have to do more, and get less tips.
So im employing less staff, an experienced worker at $17 gets lets go cos she cant compete with the $15 a hour staff behind them, the government gets less tax revenue.

That is the reality of what happens. Worse still the cash under the table employee is exploited. Do you have any idea how many businesses do that now...?
People did not benefit from the wage increase. People lost jobs.
Not only that you think big businesses will take that loss...? Hell no, they have the resources to introduce technology. See the self checkout or self serve kiosks at Walmart and McDonalds...?
Oh wait there is more. Do you have any idea how many girls flew out with nothing from the east coast and took up waitressing jobs here in Calgary? They used that job to fund their studying to acquire more skills and start their careers. They went into dentistry, real estate, IT etc. I got a lot of respect for them. That takes a lot of guts to leave with nothing and take a low paid work on the other side of Canada. But guess what, there are less jobs now. So the next batch coming in or young workers turning 18, we don't have jobs for them. Thats not funny. This is serious.

Not only that, jobs that were $17-20 a hour. Many employers cut those to minimum wage.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

So can you explain all these executives getting paid massive bonuses while the companies are having to rely on state handouts?
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-pound-bonus-

Re: Shortage of workers
 

They deserve it, whereas the average low paid worker deserves nothing. "Bloody Marvelous"
19th century economics. half a million homeless in the USA, pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Oh that's nonsense. He, like many rich people who did not inherit their wealth, worked hard at an idea, was ruthless in pursuit of it, and had a huge lucky break. In the case of Amazon that break was covid. He doesn't bring any special skills to the game.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

It's not 19th century economics. In the 19th century company owners were paid 100 times what their workers were paid. Not 1,000, or 10,000 times. There's been a real shift in wealth to a tiny minority.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Probably also helped to be of an age when the internet was just becoming a thing oh and also having the capital needed to even start it. If we was a minimum wage worker at the time, what are the chances he would have even had the option to start Amazon?

He has departed his position at Amazon, and I think is going to space with an 80 year old, that would be kind of cool.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Tony, are you very rich? How many houses and cars do you have? Do you have a private island? Two yachts?

I wonder because you seem to have bought into the Tony Robbins/Tom Vu view of capitalism, that people who have lots of money have achieved it, rather than plugging away like everyone else and accidentally having hit some sweet spot. I wonder how people who believe wealth is deserved, who are not wealthy, reconcile that gap.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Idea. Energy, Commitment. It's perfectly possible to build a business from scratch even without capital. He hit the moment when the internet caught on and that was wonderful timing for him. Covid was wonderful for him. I'm not knocking him, I'm sure he worked hard and it all just fitted. Good luck to him.

But, at the same time. Amazon and Bezos should pay tax and there's no way that it's appropriate for there to be such a wage gap between workers and CEO.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Idea is the hard part, I couldn't think of any viable business to try and start with $0...

Okay well I did think of an idea a few years ago, at the time was viable, but had overhead costs and couldn't be done from home, and no way to turn the idea into reality, now several other people have entered that idea, and likely not viable anymore due to over saturation of the market.

We did have interest in buying a pet store in the interior a few years ago, would have been more a hobby businesses, but it did turn small profit in the 5 years it was open for the person selling it, so at least covered the costs, but eh couldn't come up with the funds to buy, always a lack of funds that create the barrier.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

I made a viable business from $0 but it took a lot of luck to do so. Bezos though, he owes his fortune to the executives of Sears. Sears had the infrastructure to sell across the country, they even sold houses from a catalogue. If they had seen that email order is the same thing as mail order Amazon would never have started. Bezos was lucky that they were asleep at the wheel. Under free market capitalism they should be busted now, want to bet that they're on minimum wage? Nah, the game is fixed.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Oh Sear's dropped the ball big time, might have been one of the biggest blunders of all time. If I recall Sears stopped their catalog in 1993 ish, by then I would have thought so called professionals would have noted the future was online ordering, but I dunno, I was only 15 in 1994 and had never used the internet at that point, my first foray onto the internet was like 1997 or around there, I didn't even own or use a computer really until 1998 (excluding the IBM or Apples schools used for word processing, we never did anything beyond writing papers on them.)

My high school didn't have internet until fall of 1997 after I graduated.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

I can recall seeing an internal job advert for a mail room operator - the guy who wheels the trolley round delivering the office mail - and it stated that applicants under the age of 40 would not be considered. Basically they wanted someone they could be certain had zero ambition left.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

If I could find conscientious holiday relief of any age that was willing to learn to do my job correctly I'd be happy. Mailboy sounds like a pretty easy job but if they're 55 and can't get the mail out on time they can't do the job regardless. Everyone's job depends on everyone else doing theirs. Some tasks require a bit of training, and sometimes they need to be carried out efficiently or the show simply does not go on. Having a lack of ambition isn't the same as being too stupid or too stubborn to follow directions. If the band is loaded out at 2:30 and a convention/meeting/craft sale/wedding is booked for 9 (load-in at 8) I have 5 hrs to get the room ready, and sometimes both rooms. They haven't had any luck doing fast turn-arounds like that with untrained staff. Bartenders don't have time to sort bottles during a busy show so I do it after. If it was a big bar they can take up to a few hours to drain and sort. If I didn't do it the storage area by the back office door would stink like stale beer, have fruit flies year round, and because the cases wouldn't stack properly there wouldn't be enough space. If the place is a wreck I may have to wheel the empties away to sort after instead of doing them in the bar because cleaning could take the whole time. If the relief caretakers haven't been shown how to wash and wax the hardwood floor that just isn't happening, sorry, wedding party. It's called janitorial but that doesn't stand for simple or easy. The maintenance portion of my job description is more involved and there is contracting out for some of it but minor plumbing and electrical, regular tests and maintenance of the emergency lighting system, changing filters in rooftop units, checking boilers in the basement is all part of it. A lot of the fluorescent lights and some of the emergency lighting stations are 12' up so up to 2nd rung of the 8' step ladder. That has to be done. Every time (in normal business years) that I've been gone 3 weeks, 4 weeks, 5 weeks they're crying for me to come back and it takes a month or 2 to get the place right again. I've been doing it on 3/4 time or 30 hrs/week. Even though I'm super-annuated now I expect I'd get some warning if my yearly contract wasn't going to be renewed, and I'm still surprised when I get it. September 1st is the start of our year so I have fingers x'd for another year and x'd in hope I'll still be able to do it after my last month of rehab.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Sounds like you're a dedicated and conscientious worker, helped no doubt by the fact you feel invested in your venue and respected by your bosses. I hate to see employers treat workers like they have no right to enjoy their work. Good luck the rehab and getting back to work.

Re: Shortage of workers
 

Thanks for the good wishes. In the 90's corporations that embraced the concept of TQM (total quality management) realised that job satisfaction and job performance went hand in hand and that all employees from the ground up had to be part of it to make it work. That didn't happen in the 90's where I work, but things are a lot better now. Because it's the non-profit arts sector there's no company pension so when I stop working I start living off old age pension and Canada Pension, and that's not something to look forward to. Opportunities that were passed on or missed have to be weighed against what was done, and I've had a lot of fun.