Is She Worth It ???
 

Quenn Lizzies trip, a few hours here and a few hours there meen while the bill just keeps rising, surely the "richest " women in the world could pay her own way. She will aparently stay just 6 hours in WPeg which will also cost a small fortune
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/...541/story.html

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

When you got to a concert you don't expect the band to pay for you. This is like Canada buying a collective ticket.

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But a band gives value for money,and are seen by those that are willing to pay for that right, she just a waives hardly value for money and we all have to pay for it. A poll last month showed that 55% of Canadians didn't care if she came or not:thumbup:

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She's the head of the Commonwealth, its their duty to pay for a visit. They can suck it up or piss off.

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I'd want a small fortune if you wanted me to stay in Winipeg for 6 hours :p

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She gets £7.9 million a year from taxes and apparently thats not enough...

The Commonwealth should be a unity of ideas and people, not an excuse to have an overpaid head of state.

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I think you'll find that the Canadian Head of State has been invited to Canada by the Canadian Government. If the Canadian people don't want the Queen as their head of state they can vote for a government that will change that situation.

As the UK pays all the significant costs concerning the head of state, Canada does pretty well by leasing a head of state on the cheap.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Or even better get her to piss off:thumbsup:

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So 45% do care. That should be enough to justify the cost.

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I'm sensing you aren't a big fan of the Queen?

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"Queen" Elizabeth will be the last "Queen" of Canada and probably Australia. No one gives a sh*t about the "Queen" over here, a few old ladies maybe, that is about it.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

She's got to be the worst spounger of the social system ever, people moan about the immigrants in the UK getting everything handed to them on a plate and paid for biut fail to see the greatest social parasite Queen Lizzie:frown:

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

£7.9M is peanuts. Can you even begin to imagine what it would cost to get rid of her?

Reprinting just about every piece of government literature. Changing stamps and banknotes. Endless constitutional debates in parliament........

The cost would run to many billions. And that's just in Canada.

The monarchy doesn't do any harm and it doesn't have any real power. I don't see the point in spending vast amounts of money to fix something that is not really broken.

I see an analogy with the USA not going metric. It would cost an obscene amount of money just to change the road signs.

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60 million people in the UK, and 8 million in taxes, what's that? less than a pound per person? If you get rid of the monarchy you have to have an alternative head of state; unless you want your head of state to be publicly politically biased. That head of state would need all the trappings if you want to present your country as something other than a Ruritania.

Whatever the name is someone will need to do the job and the same amount will be spent, maybe more.

If you are looking at the UK then the Monarchy, the pomp etc brings in megamoney in tourism.

As for Canada, I've seen more pictures of the Queen on display here than I ever did in the UK, that seems odd to me. You would think Canadians would want to display their independence more. I've heard people call Canada Day Dominion Day.

Much of the dislike of the institution of the Monarchy is really a dislike of a feudal system, them and us, lords and peasants. I have no time for that no-one is inherently better than another because of the family they were born in. However I see no point in applying my dislike of the institution to individuals.

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A bit of a stupid argument this Souvy, coz when she pops her clogs and her she will be replaced by whom ever so the cost will be their any way..

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Darwin's theory?

http://www.wayodd.com/funny-pictures...garden-xiS.jpghttp://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...orough-001.jpg

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Never mind how much you dislike the idea of a monarchy, it's much less trouble and much less expensive than the hassle of changing to any workable alternative.

That's not to say there are not good alternatives. There seems general consensus (outside the US at least) that the separation of function between the head of state and the head of government is a good idea. It has appealed to a number of countries, including many Commonwealth nations who no longer have the Queen as head of state. India springs to mind: while Manmohan Singh is the prime minister and head of government, Pratibha Patil is the president. European countries, too, have adopted this model: for example, Germany has Angela Merkel, the Chancellor, as head of government but a titular president (currently vacant since Horst Köhler resigned last month) as head of state.

The only challenge if the likes of Canada or Australia were to adopt this model would be in deciding how the president would be elected and exactly what function he or she would serve. Would there be pressure against electing somebody to perform effectively the same function as the Governor General does today? Would people want a more US-style executive president? How would that effect the relationship between the executive and legislature, between the Commons, the Senate, and the office of the President?

And, in any one of these scenarios, would a presidency present better value for money (if that's where your argument starts and ends) than the current "lease" on the Queen? I strongly suspect not.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Of course Australia is a certainty to ditch the monarchy when the Queen dies, even the strongly monarchist previous PM (forget his name) recognised that. In terms of Canada I'm sure the vast majority are indifferent but indifference doesn't necessarily translate into momentum to change. Passion or momentum seems to be absent in Canada for anything that doesn't involve icey hockey.

I used to be very anti monarchist but I have no objection to the status quo these days. I would much rather have a non partisan political head of state rather than a succession of President Thatcher, Blair or Cretien, Harper etc I certainly dislike the extent of all the courtiers etc and the extended royal family could do with trimming down (not literally) but overall as a system constitutional monarchy is probably okay. Seems to work well for socially progressive countries in scandinavia and northern europe.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

You seem to be missing the point. Getting rid of it would cost vastly more than keepng it.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Can the Canadians get rid of the monarch unilaterally? Don't they need our approval first?

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Probably not.

Bit of a hassle to change the entire constitution etc. Could cost a packet and take years without really altering anything. That's not something the public service would want to get in to, natch.

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Canadians don't do change well.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Stick this in yer pipe ya bunch of whingers, britain is well shot of you:sneaky:

God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and Glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
Oh, save us all!
Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!
Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over
From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Bet you had to google it:rofl::rofl:

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

I have it tattoed on my thingy, had to use smallish letters but its readable at 10 feet :thumbsup:

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

I can barely believe some of the vile outpourings here.....

The English-speaking population of Canada has as its core the colonists of Nova Scotia (which used to include New Brunswick) and the United Empire Loyalists. The latter were those who refused to support the revolution in the southern colonies, and who suffered greatly at the hands of the "patriots" before moving north.

New France was conquered and when it came time to make peace with France (the old one), it was the French who abandoned their colonists in favour of a couple of Caribbean islands. Those French colonists were allowed freedoms under the British crown that they never enjoyed under the French crown, and they were left to speak and worship in the language and denomination of their choice.

In 1867, Canada became a dominion within the Empire under the provisions of the British North America Act, and its independence was enhanced with the Statutes of Westminster in the 1930s.

So.....Canada was NOT born of revolution. It was, in fact, ANTI-revolutionary. Yes, it is entirely independent and has its own, entirely Canadian, constitution. Without the Crown at its heart though, there's no great reason for Canada to remain a single dominion, from sea to sea to sea (assuming the navy can ever defend the northern one).

The Crown gives continuity and a much less costly head of state than a president would be anyway. There's no "hail to the chief" culture in Canada, so it's unlikely that an elected president would have anything like the prestige of, say, an American or French president domestically. The position of Governer General fits the Canadian psyche much better - less showy, less political.

There is an unfortunate tendency among some Canadians to believe that some of their tax dollars go towards the Queen's income. Obviously that's not the case. She receives money from the UK civil list, while surrendering a much greater income from the Duchy of Lancaster to the UK Treasury and also now paying income tax on the civil list moneys. The cost of transporting the Queen and other royals is born either by the civil list or the UK treasury. If the Canadian government invites the Queen to visit Canada, it is only fair that they be good hosts and pay the costs of security, etc, which are solely spent in Canada.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

I think if you were to survey the entirety of the population here, you'd find that the support for the monarchy is highest in atlantic Canada, rural canada in general and the poplin raincoat ex-pat brigade. In urban Canada and Quebec the monarchy is irrelevant. I make a point at the post office of requesting any stamp that doesn't have the queen on it.

The monarchies time is up in Canada.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

I don't think this holds in Toronto, at least not in the east end. There are lots of legion halls, pictures of royalty in pubs and shops, that sort of thing. Support is not fanatical but I'd be very surprised if there was any level of interest in changing from a monarchy. What little support there for the idea there may be would dissipate completely were the population to be offered President Harper as an alternative.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Ok so you googled the history of Canada, so whats your point:confused:

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Ignoring for a moment the two errors in one word ("monarchy's"), why get rid of something as irrelevant when there is no better alternative? There certainly isn't a cheaper alternative. Assuming those of you who are agin the monarchy are actual British expats, why didn't you move to the USA? Or did you see Canada as a kind of USA-Lite which was easier to get into legally?

Let's say you get your way and the monarchy is abolished in Canada. An elected president heads the executive branch of government and is the head of state. Just as no government can currently form a majority in the House of Commons, no presidential candidate can garner support from all regions so you have a president elected by a minority. He/she can be either......a western conservative, an Ontario liberal with support from Atlantic Canada or a separatist from Quebec (yup, if you're going to vote for a head of state, the one with the most support could be the Bloc's candidate).

If you have the separatist as head of state, dedicated to dissolving the state and at loggerheads with the House of Commons, say "bye bye" to Canada. If you have the eastern/central liberal in charge, say "bye bye" to Alberta along with all its oil money, and thus "bye bye" Canada. Quebec won't stick around with less federal cash available. If you have the western conservative in charge, say "bye bye" to Quebec, likely followed by the Atlantic provinces since they'll be isolated geographically and politically.

It may be unfashionable to teach history these days, unless it's social history and absolutely nothing to do with powerful, white men, but it is worthwhile for a country to remember from whence it, and its values, came. If Canada throws away its links to the past, it risks losing the future.

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I think that's a fair description of Canada but it's just bizarre to think that anyone chooses a country in which to live according to the method of selection of the head of state.

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I didn't google anything - or make more than a passing reference to the history of Canada in my post. Did you actually read it?

My point is that Canadians, when they give the matter any thought at all, tend to consider that the status quo is preferable to any alternative. Some countries have a good system, others a worse system. Canada is unlikely to become a US-style "partisan presidency", because (I'd guess a majority of constitutional theorists would agree) that's the worst possible system of democratic government. While many Canadians may not be actively pro-monarchy, fewer still are actively anti-monarchy. So we muddle on.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

Yet you think it's okay to move to a country while having every intention of changing its method of selection of head of state? That would get you jailed and then deported if you tried it in the USA...

If/when you become a citizen of Canada, you must take the following oath:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful
and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty
Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada,
Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully
observe the laws of Canada
and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Call me picky if you like, but I take a dim view of those who lie under oath.

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So long as you stick to lawful means, sure, but I can't believe this ranks in the top couple of hundred concerns for most immigrants.

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If cradles had to utter that trash, there would be a lot fewer Canadians. I wouldn't pledge allegiance to some tart across the ocean.

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Yeah but who would have you?

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Not true! All Cadets have to swear allegiance to the Queen, therefore I would assume all serving military swear the same allegiance.

I have no problem with the Queen and Royal family, IMO they bring in millions of pounds of tourist money and I quite like the familiarity of seen Her Maj on my money.

Re: Is She Worth It ???
 

My my you do sound very bitter and twisted Gremmie!

Shes worth every penny/cent! the cost to each member of the British public for the monarch is peanuts, compared to what she gives back to the country.

And on top of that the monarch provides the UK and to a lesser extent Canada protection against some power hungry dictator/extreme radical that may get voted into power..... as head of state all the armed forces and police swear alliegience to the crown, not the government.

Therefore if something like this ever did happen the monarch could in theory overide the government, this has never been put to the test and this may sound a bit alarmist, but how do you think Hitler came about in 1930s Germany? I notice the BNP, EDL in the UK are gaining popularity... quite scary really, so its nice to have some sort of contingency to prevent any exterme radical act these imbeciles may commit if they were in power.

Long live the Queen!

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And you really think the old bat stops the above :rofl::rofl: nothing about being bitter and twisted i just think in this modern world their is no place for such antiques:ohmy:

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Have you met her to insult her personally? Insult the role of the Monarch if you dislike it but you weaken your argument considerably when your only reasons against a constitutional monarchy are that you consider a woman you have never met to be an old bat, a sponger, and an antique. Find some rational reasons and present the alternative and you may be taken seriously.