Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Oh dear....... oh. Damn, no emoticons. I was sort of referring to the way Scots refer to the English as......never mind..... No such thing as assumed guilt - it's a rule. Even for the Germans.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

You are forgiven.

I think it is worth noting, however, that the Act of Union 1707 came about as a result of treaty negotiations, not conquest, by two countries that already shared a monarchy.

It followed on from the Darien disaster, a colonial adventure that went wrong, which had bancrupted the Scottish establishment. The Scots were looking for a bailout. Some would say that Scotland has been doing quite well out of the Union ever since, up to and including the £37 billion bailout of the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2009, and the substantial subsidy paid by English taxpayers to Scottish local government. And that is why it is very unlikely that the Scots will vote for full independence.

As for Wales -- the conquest was completed by the early fourteenth century. At that point in time the English monarchy still spoke French, as did the aristocracy, down to the humblest knight. Their documents were written in French and Latin, and dated "X years since the Conquest" -- that is the conquest of England.

It would not be true to say that Wales was conquered by the Normans, since by that time the monarchy had lost most of its lands in France (although it would spend the next 100 years trying to get them back). However, it would be equally wrong to say Wales was conquered by the English. The real mistake is in trying to apply the modern concept of nation to the medieval world which thought in terms of monarchies and fiefdoms.

Ironically, the most determined attempt to integrate Wales with England and wipe out the Welsh language took place under a Welsh monarch -- Henry VIII.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I didn't know he was Welsh. Well, well. That would explain the multiple wives I suppose.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

if Scotland becomes independant, will Balmoral become the Scottish PM's country home, as I don't recall many Monarchs who have country homes on foreign soil.

I'd suggest it's similar to a long-term relationship break-up. A couple tolerate each other, before convincing themselves that they don't need the other person and will be better off without them.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I believe that, like Sandringham, it is the royal families privately owned property, its not owned by the state, so it would just be a foreign holiday home, like half of South Kensington is for Arab royalty.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Plus wasnt St Patrick Welsh as well ?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Good point! Though don't we pay towards it's upkeep through the Civil List?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

There's no suggestion that Scotland would also become a republic if it became independent.

Assuming it would, is anglo-centric and ignores history. The Queen is Queen of England because she is descended from Henry VII of England, but she is Queen of Scotland because she is descended from Mary Queen of Scots. The Queen is Elizabeth II of England, but she is Elizabeth I of Scotland. She would still be Queen of Scotland after independence.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I dont think we (well, you...) do for those two, these big estates are capable of generating their own income, and the Windsors (ne Saxs-Coburgs) do have a fairly substantial private income (privy purse), primarily property related income via the Duchy of Lancaster, which include a large chunk of central London.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I think the crowns were merged (by the Stuarts) before the countries, Royal head of one is therefore Royal head of the other.

Like you say they'll have to become a republic and abolish their royality to change that...

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Unless you are Scottish or have roots to Scotland do we here in Canada and I would say the majority of BE posters being English really care and thats not wanting to be mean or disrespectful of our Scottish friends, neighbours etc.
The Govt has agreed to let them have a referendum the ball is now in their court.
If they do seperate Im sure the Canadian Govt will make holders of a Scottish passport TRV exempt and the same rules as an English passport holder has.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Er, it possible to be English AND British, is it not, and Scotland is a large part of that Union, So yes, "English"people may care.... Im interested and you have to go back a few generations in my Family tree to get to the Scottish genes.

My English born and bred brother has lived in Scotland since going there to Uni, I bet he cares!

Besides, Im not sure I would say a majority of posters here are English, there seem a fair number of people from Scotland and Ireland (N & Rep) here. Not so many Welsh?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I'm Scottish but have lived overseas for the past 11 years(most of that in Ireland) so I'll have no vote in the referendum.

If I did have a vote I would vote for independence, however, us Scots are a canny lot and I can't see a 'yes' vote prevailing in the referendum as it's probably to big a jump for alot of Scots in one go

The SNP are playing the long game here though and are slowly but surely heading towards an independent state anyway

step 1 - re-establish the Scottish Parliament
step 2 - form a minority government
step 3 - form a majority government
step 4 - heading towards 'devo-max' powers for the Scottish parliament - regardless of the referendum outcome
step 5 - 'hey boys & girls' we're more or less independent anyway, let's just do it

interesting article in todays Scotsman...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/cartoon...tate_1_2052726

the other thing I can't quite understand is why the UK establishment are so determined to hang on to Scotland? If we really are a bunch of subsidised scroungers and Scottish independence would leave the UK better off without us, why aren't they just saying "ok Holyrood, go ahead with the referendum and let us know how you get on with it" instead of running around like headless chickens in a panic

jings, crivvens and help ma boab :cool:

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

But the main question is does he get to vote. I see your point and agree but isnt it like the Quebec situation here but I noticed only the people in Quebec got to vote.
I wonder what would happen if the rest of Canada got to vote on the Quebec situation?

BTW I do not dislike Scottish persons, the country or its culture (except maybe the true haggis recipie) :lol:

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Because its the UK establishment:confused:

Think about it, what does "U.K." stand for?:sneaky: Wouldnt be so "united" without Scotland.

Never mind several hundred years of historical precedent either.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Anyone registered to vote in Scotland will have a vote in the referendum, so that includes people born in England, living in Scotland.

I think you have the right to vote, for 15 years after leaving the UK, so I think Scotty1974 could probably register to vote in the referendum, if he contacted the electoral registration officer for the area he last lived in Scotland.

The reason for politicians like Cameron, being against independence, is defence, and the reduction in Britain's standing in the world. Putting it simply, the bigger you are, the bigger your punch. However, I don't understand why Cameron is against Devo-Max. The only reason I can think of, is that he fears it would lead to independence in the future, as Scotty1974 suggests.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Surely territorial waters and natural resources must be a consideration too? That and the whole constitiutional/ historical significance of the union?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Because the seperation referenda were held at the provincial level, not at the federal level.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Otherwise the rest of Canada in all likelihood would have voted for separation....bon débarras ! :cool::p

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I reckon people in BC would vote yes if asked whether quebec should go or not. The locals don't seem to like the uppity frenchies that much for some reason, probably due to their perceived uppitiness.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

The good people of Newfoundland and Labrador would also vote yes. Any wavering could be instantly stopped by the words "Churchill Falls" and "Quebec Hydro".

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Hydro Quebec, actually.

Off out to shovel now. Wearing my hand-knitted trigger mittens from Labrador and Newfoundland.

They are warm but quite big. Room enough for six fingers.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

the Republic of Ireland left the UK in 1922 and did the UK cease to exist then?

Wouldn't it still be the United Kingdom of England, Wales and NI?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

The Prairies Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba Im certain would vote yes to seperation.
Sheesh not looking good for them is it :lol:

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Little doubt that Alberta would vote yes either.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Can I just say that some of the attitude displayed on the first page disgusted me. Especially that displayed by Oink. You'd think with the way a few select people were talking that England was constantly getting shafted by the Scots, not the other way about.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Oink? Didn't he expressed indifference?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

The UK would still exist without Scotland. I think the Act of Union says something like a United Kingdom is created to be known as Great Britain. Great Britain would cease to exist.

The UK at present is "Great Britain and Northern Ireland etc" so pressumably Great Britain would just be replaced with England and Wales.

To me there do seem to be more important things to spend time and money on than unravelling 300+ years of shared history and institutions.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

I said I was indifferent, stay or leave it makes little difference to us. Why are we meant to care when its really a scotch issue?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

How does England presently shaft the Scots?

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Having looked back at the first page, I realize that you weren't necessarily any worse than the others. The Kes Avatar must have had me distracted. But do you have to use the term "scotch". That was invented by the English. Our official denonyms are "Scottish" and "Scots"

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Well for a start, the fact that Scotland contributes more to the Uk than the budget it receives.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

The whole language was invented by the English, the clue is in the name. We wish you [Scottish and Scots] all the best with whichever decision you make. :thumbup:

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Must have been when the BRITISH government dumped billions into the RBS...:huh:

I suspect there is a lot of bitterness over Thatcher and the poll tax imposition, the fact that all that oil money was pissed away, and the fact that Scotland has historically been the guinea pig for every half thought out scheme the government comes up with.

Or maybe it goes back farther to the clearances.. Either way it will be interesting to watch, but from what I hear the SNP were elected over a general dissatisfaction with either Conservative or Labour as an alternative, and not because a majority actually want independence. Time will tell though.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

13 November 1999 at Hampden Park Scotland 0 England 2 Euro 2000 :lol:

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Actually, the earliest origins of the English language were brought to Britain by Germanic settlers(the Angles, the Saxons and the Jutes).

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Well, yes. "England" means "Land of the Angles" - it said so on wikipedia.

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

Re: Scotttish Independence Referendum
 

And the (independent) evidence for that is .............