Shard

Nicola has just called for it. Interesting times...

Former Lancastrian

In what amounts to a massive political gamble, Miss Sturgeon said she would now demand authority from the UK government to trigger an independence referendum as early as Autumn next year.
Nicola Sturgeon stressed Scotland will make its own decision about its future as she announced plans to hold a referendum between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019.
So does that mean we have over a year of this thread debating the merits of if the Scots should vote Leave or Remain? Will it be a referendum question like the Brexit one?
What could possibly go wrong

Im guessing the UK taxpayer will be paying for this.

chawkins99

Sturgeon seems to think an independent Scotland will remain part of the EU.

Even if Scotland had voted to leave previously, they would be outside of the EU and need to negotiate their way back in. Likely to take at least 10 years (if successful).

At the previous Indy vote, they all knew of the impending Brexit vote so when they voted to stay in the UK, that was a tacit acceptance of the Brexit vote.

Personally, I don't think they will get another referendum. Certainly not before Brexit is complete.

Even if they are successful in an independence vote and subsequently re-admitted to the EU, I think they'll become Greece (revisited).

Shard

Not really. Brexit was by no means a forgone conclusion (particularly by the political establishment) and some Scots would have voted to stay within the UK precisely because they expected that would ensure stability of EU membership.

Pizzawheel

We need something to talk about in intermissions of the Great Cheese Debate.

Absolutely. Which is why I think this is 2 weeks premature. The SNP should only have gone for this after Article 50 was triggered and the UK had driven off the cliff.

The common view was that the Brexit referendum would be Remain- the winning leave vote was exactly the same surprise as Trump getting in.

BristolUK

Not to the Russians and that other American organisation pally with Farage and Trump.

Former Lancastrian

Still its a bit of a rash decision to make just because of the Rugby result on Saturday.

chawkins99

That's my point. They knew the Brexit referendum was coming. By voting to remain in the UK, they also voted to accept the Brexit result.

The fact that the Brexit vote didn't go the way they had hoped (or expected) doesn't change that.

FWIW: I voted to leave the EU even though it was not in MY best interests (as an Expat). I believed (and still do) that Brexit is better for the UK.

You don't get a do-over every time you disagree with something (no matter how big).

sharkus

I'm curious as to what "Wee Jimmy" will do if the 2nd vote goes the same way as the first? Moan and whinge for a 3rd, and continue doing so until she gets the result she wants?

I also wonder what she'll do if arsebag may refuses to allow a 2nd vote.

Paul_Shepherd

What a complete joke.....it makes a mockery of a referendum, a referendum is just that....let the people decide then leave it alone, not keep holding them until they get a different result, the one the SNP wants.

Its laughable..

mikelincs

I can't see the Westminster Government even allowing another one yet, wait 10 years and it MAY happen.

sharkus

Exactly! They voted to stay. Done deal. Oh, but Brexit result could mean a different outcome. Tough!

Part of me would like to see a 2nd one, have them want to leave, thinking they can then more easily cozy up to the EU, and then find the EU turns around and tells them to bugger off.

Shard

Brexit results are a material change. 59/60 Scottish constituencies voted to Remain. Indy II makes good sense, although the timing is a bit questionable.

dave_j

Sturgeon is doing what politicians do, she's stirring the pot in order to advance her personal standing. In this she has a win-win argument and one can only debate the timing.

May will decline the request and Sturgeon will be able to point to Scotland as still being under the Westminster yoke while at the same time appearing to champion the nationalistic cause. She will have placed another brick in the Sturgeon wall.

She's chosen this moment, at the point of Article 50 being invoked, because she can be absolutely certain that the referendum request will surely be denied and as a consequence there is absolutely no political risk attached to her once more trying to prise open Pandora's box with its unexpected consequences.

On a wider point, politicians as a whole distrust referenda and there is a history of repeated referenda being held until the will of the people mirrors that of those they are designed to by-pass.

Paul_Shepherd

I think Brexit is only part of it, its just the SNP they are like a bad smell that wont go away stirring the sh!t pot.

Scotland wisely voted no to independence then a few months later after some SNP sh!t stirring, Scotland vote SNP across the board in the general election? WTF?

Also the SNP seem to believe that they will be able to remain in the EU even if Britain leaves…..i think that’s a misguided belief….just like the one of Scotland being a self sustaining country outside the UK. Its time the SNP gave it rest and stop trying to break up the union.