schools at xmas time!
 

My daughter came back from her school the other day, not understanding why nobody seemed excited about xmas - only her! I think in her young way of not being able to describe properly how she felt, was the fact that xmas in her school (and i presume most public schools) is hardly recognised and not celebrated.

In her old school at this time, she would have been taking part in the Nativity Play, they would have been having a xmas party in her class, exchanging xmas cards with her friends, the school would be hosting a big xmas fair with all the typical games, santas grotto etc. There would be decorations up and a tree etc etc.

No wonder she can't understand why nobody is interested in xmas, they arn't!! Must seem to think it would be shameful to celebrate it in schools. Very Sad IMO and completley wrong and i can't wait to go back to the UK next sunday for a holiday and the first time to feel really chrissmassy.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Sadly, it seems that in recent years, Christmas has become taboo in Canada, due to the PC Brigade. They have to have 'holiday parties' not Christmas parties - and not just school, but in offices and shops, etc. too. You'll notice a lot of Christmas cards don't actually say 'Happy Christmas' either - they tend to say 'Happy Holidays'.

It's a shame, cause I love Christmas!

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

They do Christmas in school here where we live. We're going to a Christmas concert next week and my daughters been learning Christmas songs for weeks. They also buy and deliver Candygrams to their classmates, there's been lots of Christmas collections for less fortunate members of our community, and they're all off to the theatre next week.
I think it must depend on where you live. As for the 'Happy holidays' thing, I think that's come up from the USA, where they've referred to it as that for years and years.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

yep here too, must be a redneck thing as they have not yet heard of PC eh!
just had a traditional christmas concert. cards are being made in class along with other christmas stuff, and they say merry christmas. this is a public school.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

There is a tension between allowing religion and schools to mix. Most provinces have an official separation in their school acts, though that is often ignored. You'll find Christmas concerts but rarely overt religious icons such nativity scenes. If there are any, it'll be in a classroom, usually because the teacher is religiousy and is trying to fight back against what they see as encroaching PCism.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

See personally I like the more secular approach used in North America...seems to me that if you have a country that's a mixture of a range of cultures - as Canada is - then you can't present one religion in a government institution like a public school as being 'the norm'. So you either celebrate all the different religions and their festivals - which would surely be impractical - or keep it nice and generic by saying 'happy holidays'. Presumably the fact that Hannukah falls around the same time, as well as the new year in the Gregorian calendar, are two obvious examples of doing this near Christmas. I think it's just about respecting a wide range of beliefs rather than things being taken over by the 'PC brigade' (an expression I hate incidentally).

That's not to say that people shouldn't be able to celebrate Christmas or any other religious festival (within reason), nor that there's anything wrong with Christmas, I quite like it personally.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Don't forget Festivus

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Does anybody really consider christmas as a religious holiday? I like christmas because it's a tradition rather than a celebration of some things that never actually happened.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

So you deny the Roman Empire existed? You deny there was indeed a cenus? You deny there was indeed a second Jewish exodus from Egypt?

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

The story of the nativity is made up; the son of god did not actually exist.

Back on topic, it's 'merry christmas' for me, 'happy holidays' is just an irritating americanism.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I like Christmas because you get presents and you can get drunk and your mum can't tell you off.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Pretty much the same as the UK school I worked in here on the Island. I work in an Elementary with the Grade 7s ... It's xmas craft day on Monday (plus other crafts coz one of my students is JW) then later in the day we're all off to watch A Christmas Carol 3D (parents as well), Tue is the door decorating comp, Wed ~ fun lunch & carol singers from Grade 1 are visiting :wub: Thu we might actually get some work done :D & Friday is the Christmas dance :rolleyes:

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I don't mind at all that the kids are learning different beliefs - in fact i like it. My daughter over the last few weeks has come back with many pieces of work related to the different cultures in her class which is great. I feel though that christmas as what i believe in (the birth of christ) is being dismissed. Why is it ok to celebrate Honaka and the many others, which the kids are being taught and to teach kids what they stand for, but when it comes to christmas and Easter etc it is just classed as a holiday because noone wants to offend people.

I am glad that some schools are still doing all the traditional stuff, maybe it comes down to school and the area you live in . I still believe its wrong and i feel for my kids who used to enjoy all the festivities that were part of christmas - she looked lovely as an angel! (never chosen to be Mary though!!)

World going mad with PC, it has to stop somewhere!!

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

when we moved 7 years ago and put the boys into the catholic system, we thought they would do all the christmas stuff.

For my eldest boy who was then 9 it was the lack of christmas at the school which was the biggest culture shock for him. I don't think he has got over it yet and he is now 17!!

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I don't know about schools but at work they decorate for everything. Christmas decorations went up at the beginning of the month, though it does say Happy Holidays. I find this bizarre as at the works party last weekend they said a Christian grace before the meal. Everyone except us hung their heads and did their best to look holy.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I guess it just depends on the school....My son's school has its concert next Thursday - afternoon AND evening performance!! He seems to have learnt a bit about all the religious festival occuring around now. I am not religious and so I don't want a ton of stuff forced on him. I can imagine if you are used to a Nativity play etc it must seem different.....
Have fun in the Uk
Lisa

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Must admit last year the kids was at a different school and they did everything inc dancers etc, partys and special days running upto xmas.
This year we are at the otherside of town and i feel that the school doesnt do enough for the kids before xmas................:(

But with our canadian friends we went to a garage party with them yesterday, fire pit and fab canadian party games (the other moms had to help me (lol))
Nothing like i had experienced in the uk with fire pit/hot dogs and everyone having a fab time in the garage :D
But we loved it, may not of been the xmas stuff we are used to in the uk, but all the kids loved the games and so did the adults.
Sometimes changing the way you do things is good :thumbsup:
Good luck on your trip back OP

LB :wub:

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Lots of people consider Christmas as a religious holiday, perhaps no-one close to you Alan2005. Having read many of your thread replies (and boy you get in just about everywhere), I would say you could do with some 'churchin' up', to quote from The Blues Brothers. :p

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Raised Anglican, OH is a (lapsed) catholic, both sets of parents attend church regularly. We have new age/budhist leanings.

NONE of our families consider Christmas a religious 'holiday'. At 'best' (the parents) its consider a religious day (strictly speaking its Christmas eve not Christmas day that should be observed) at 'worst' its a traditional holiday that takes place at the end of the Gregorian Year.

I imagine that 99% of the activities and meals you engage you in have either pre-christian or post 1812 origins and have very little to do with the birth of any child that may (or may not) have taken place in or around bethlehem approx 2041 years ago.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

That's cos I am an opinionated arse. amen sister!

Quite. We put our xmas tree up yesterday.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

As I understand it, many Canadians are practicing Christians. They are the people who consider Christmas a religious period (Advent, birth of Jesus and so on). IMO the state education system should encompass the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus (Christ Mass) as they do with Divali, Hanukkah etc. Otherwise it's discrimination isn't it?

The 'holiday' has become a big mish-mash of traditions; card writing (Victorian 1843), gift-giving (Christian & also Greek and Byzantine folklore among others), stockings (the story of Saint Nicholas/Turkish), the tree (16th century Northern Germany), mistletoe (Celtic/pagan), Boxing day (Victorian), decorating the tree (Lutherian), Santa's costume (Thomas Nast). So who does own Christmas in that sense? :huh:

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

and Minder on the orient express might be on the telly.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

1) Canada was until the 16th/17th centuries a Shamanist country.
2) Advent is distinct from and has NEVER been a part of Christmas. (Hence the 24th being known as Christmas EVE)
3) MANY 'Canadian' Christians are 'deviants' from Western European catholic Churches hence the exchange of gifts can occur anytime from Dec 6th through to Jan 6th
4) You show me a Canadian State school that 'celebrates' Diwalli and Hanukkah and I will give your argument more credence
5) The majority of Christian Scholars (and here I mean ordained academics) accept that what IF there was a messiah born in Bethlehem it was NOT around the 25th December, what you actually celebrate (with modifications) is Saturnalia (OR the winter solistice).

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Christian Advent is the period of repentance and 'waiting' (fasting and meditation for the early Christians) in the lead up to the day of the celebration of Christ's birth, so strictly speaking it is not part of the Christ Mass. However in its adulterated form it is part of the approach to 'secular' Christmas day in the form of a calendar with little windows ;).

I don't argue that Jesus was born on 25th December. There is significant evidence that it wasn't that time of year he was born, but in the absence of an exact date the Church had to choose one. What better time than to oust/erode/eclipse a pagan festival?? I am familiar with most of the other European spiritual festivals that take/took place around the end of December which have influenced how we celebrate the whole thing we call Christmas.

I was under the impression from other posters though that, like in the UK, Canadian schools explore and celebrate the festivals of other religions in schools??

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I was under the impression from other posters though that, like in the UK, Canadian schools explore and celebrate the festivals of other religions in schools??[/QUOTE]

I think it really depends on the Province and probably the school....As I said earlier my son's school seems to have talked about some festivals but not in any great detail...He goes to a Public School not a religious school - if he went to a faith based school I would guess he would learn in more detail about religion. His school - and I would assume most of the others in the public system believe that it is the role of the parents to instill whatever faith they want to into their kids ...I would also say that frankly his school is not exactly overflowing with kids from other faiths so I guess religious differences are not as relevant at this point!!

My son is only in First Grade. I have no idea if they get taught about different beliefs as they get older. I for one am happy for him to get an outline - I don't want him to be ignorant BUT as a total non believer I don't want hocus pocus (IMHO) rammed down his throat - that is the job of a faith based school.....

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

[I don't want hocus pocus (IMHO) rammed down his throat]

He is at Hogwarts?;)

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Do you think they learn about world religions there???:)

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I would think so, it seems a very broad minded sort of place, barring the anti-muggle undercurrents ;)

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Personally I think they are all racists...........................




They keep 'fighting' the 'Black Magicians'

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Actually - they don't.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

Not sure I read this the way it was intended :eek:

Even in Europe many diff traditions remain...

I prefer presents morning, noon and night..

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

LOL, no maybe you didn't.

Coptics, some orthodox and some protestant traditions tend to exchange gifts on days OTHER than Dec 25th. These are the people I was refering to as 'deviants' from Western catholic (with a small c) Churches.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

;)










Methodist - deviant from CofE:rofl:

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

That's really interesting, I was at my daughter's first nativity this morning here in the UK, and although we didn't choose a C of E School for religious reasons, I'm really beginning to appreciate the moral lessons and values that they are instilling. We are moving to Oakville in the spring, and have started researching schools. I had not planned on considering Catholic schooling because it just seemed innappropriate, but what is the solution? What school are your children at?

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

My neighbour across the road has her three boys in the Catholic system here in Calgary. She is a very lapsed Catholic but says she wants her kids to learn morals and values.....Please understand that I am in no way attacking you BUT....My child gets taught morals and values by my husband and me. He doesn't go to a religious school but he also learns morals and values at his school... I would think that any good school teaches its students how to be good people and good citizens......I really would argue that they learn any more in a religious school....they just learn it differently.

As an extremely lapsed Catholic myself I would never put my children through the kind of 'fear of God' 'moral' teaching I experienced....That said I am sure the schools are nowhere near as bad here!!!!

I guess my point is that in your situation I wouldn't assume anything about a school based on whether it is religious or not....If you are in a nice neighbourhood you will probably have a great school....Not sure if you can send your child to a Catholic school here without some evidence of Catholic faith....Might be different in Ontario though!!

Good luck with whatever you decide
Lisa

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

The school system in Newfoundland has been secular since the 1990's I'm told. 'Cept no-one changed the names of the schools so you have a 'secular' 'Holy-mother-'t'underin-lord-mary-of-christ-queen-of-whatever' High School. But it's not catholic, oh dear me, no.

The Mrs, an aetheist, is currently teaching a junior high religion class every week. Although it seems to be less about religion and more about personal and moral responsibilities which is a positive thing. It is regarded by the school as the subject that the less able pupils should be given a chance to shine in.:rofl:

Christmas is celebrated in all its consumerist glory both inside and outside school here. Divali? Not so much.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I really wouldn't worry about lack of moral content in Canadian (secular) public schooling. My son is in Grade 1 at an Oakville public (French immersion) school. There's plenty of apppropriate instruction in moral judgements, values etc, taking examples from all walks of life.

To get back to somewhere near the OP's point, my son's school (again, an Oakville public elementary) had their Christmas concert last week. The "junior choir" - effectively all of Grades 1-3 - sang a number of songs from different Christian traditions and from other religions whose festivals happen at around this time of year. From a Swedish carol about Santa Lucia (as I have since discovered, one of very few Catholic martyrs to be commemorated by Lutheran churches in Scandinavia) as the kids processed onto stage carrying little candle flashlights, through traditional Hanukkah songs, to a lovely piece in French about Père Noël. He (my son, not Father Christmas) has at least one Hindu and one Muslim in his class, who both joined in all the songs with gusto, and whose parents were among the most enthusiastic in the audience. Not a hint of political correctness or the sort of inaction-for-fear-of-offending-anyone that the Daily Mail thrives on.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I remember we had a similar sort of thing - one lesson a week in the lower sixth, a formless 45-minute period where we all debated whether Buddhism was cooler than Shinto, and whether we should help old ladies cross the street, and other fascinating dilemmas. Being a pretentious school, I think we called it "Moral Philosophy" rather than plain old RE.

Re: schools at xmas time!
 

I take your point, of course all good schools will instill citizenship, but like you say it is the way they are taught that I am currently enjoying here - I suppose the christian stories are good hooks to hang general morals on which works well with my 4 year old. You of course also get all the carols and traditions that happen to be religious but have become for some people part of Christmas spirit which I think is what the original poster was referring to. Of course, I realise (before you all start typing madly).. if you want British culture.....................


.