Remembrance Day
 

Today 11th November is a stat holiday in Alberta and all the remembrance services are held today. At 11am we will stand for two minutes in Remembrance. Over in Ottawa and throughout the world our Prime Minister and all other world leaders will do the same.

So why does the UK have all the major Remembrance day services with the Royal Family and politicians at the Cenotaph on the sunday nearest to 11th.?

Why did some one decide that a Sunday near to 11th is better than the actual day. 16 million people died in WW1 and so why did someone say 'we will remember you on a day close by?

this post is not intended to upset or offend anyone, I just would like to know why and I am sure someone on the expats site will know.

Re: Remembrance Day
 

I always thought that the services were held on the nearest Sunday so that more people could join in, maybe without the need for declaring a public holiday. Less traffic for processions to Cenotaphs, no need to take off work etc. From being a kid, I always watched the service from the Royal Albert Hall, went to special Church services on the Sunday but always - and still do - go somewhere quiet at 11am on the 11th for reflection and to give thanks for those who gave to us.

I find it incredibly sad and hurtful that kids and young people either don't know or don't care about this important date.

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Do you know that to be the case?

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When my son went to School in Toronto (JK & SK) they learned about remembrance Day unfortunately it's not even mentioned in school here.

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I suspect you are right. But why not take a day of work, make it a bank holiday!

i just think it is very sad that bank holidays are at other times of year for religious and other reasons, but something as so important as this is not in the UK a bank holiday list.

I do not know how many people died from the UK in the first world war but I am sure if we add to the Second World War and all other conflicts including over 230 people recently in Afghanistan, we are talking a lot of millions!

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Finger trouble - this is in response to dbd33.

Sadly, and in general, yes.

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Remembrance day would be a fitting & noble reason to insert a much needed public holiday into what is the longest run without a holiday in the whole year i.e late summer bank holiday to Christmas day, this year amounting to nearly 21 weeks!

I would still keep Remembrance Sunday though as the main day for parades etc.

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Many, many Albertans don't take this day as intended but instead trade it for an extra day off at Christmas.

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Sorry is that not missing the point. Have a day off on the 11th as break in a long spell without one, but still have the parades on the Sunday.

'If we have an extra day off we don't want to waste it going to a parade' attitude.

When I lived in the UK i was in Met Police and so of course worked many Remembrance sundays. I thought they were great, good, etc. But when I moved to Cochrane I found it more profound. The schools did a service the day before (they are off on the 11th) all the offices have remembrance wreaths, and in the first year i was here 10% of the town went to the service and did the march to the war memorial. I just thought 10% was a lot more than what i had seen in the UK services.

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Somebody answered this question already. It's cos they didn't want to shut production down in the UK during the second world war. And really does it matter? The 16 million dead don't know one way or the other do they.

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That is their choice, but the banks, buisnesses, schools are all shut today.

Shops are going to stay open, but that happens every where now in the world. It is only a matter of time that we can all go shopping at Walmart or Marks and Spencers on Christmas day.

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Thanks, I suppose it made sense at that time.

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I don't see this as a problem. For some these days are important, for others they aren't.

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But not in Canada. As Elaine said, children are taught the reason for remembrance day in schools.

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Christmas Day is specific to religion (doesn't stop people who aren't part of that religion taking advantage of it though does it?). As for Armistice Day being remembered - I say most definitely and it's an insult to those who died in all the wars not to.

16.5 million dead is for WW1 only, add to that the 70 million or so in WW2 plus subsequent wars and that's not counting the millions injured.

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The dead cannot be insulted. It's you that's insulted - this is fair enough, but at least be honest about it.

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Ok - so I'm insulted that the memory of the millions dead is being insulted. Pretty much in the same way I'd be insulted if somebody said or did something disrespectful to the memory of a dead relative - honestly.

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Which is your prerogative. If people want to spend today killing people on MW2 or watching TV or whatever, then that's their prerogative too. For me, it's a nice day off; for you it has meaning. There is nothing wrong with this state of affairs.

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Indeed, BUT the OH has a reservist on her staff (he came back from Afghanistan two months ago) and he will be leading a full Rembrance service this AM.

The option was put to ALL the staff in an open vote and 'sadly' it was a majority (of two) to work today and have an extra day in December. For those who feel that 'young people' dont respect this day it was (in the main) the OLDER staff who wanted extra time at christmas and the young ones who wanted to observe the day.

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For the estimated five million who bought it yesterday, I suspect the majority are more than grateful that the release date was followed by an official day off work (no matter what the significance of it is).

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Certainly NOT the case. The ceremony I was just at virtually the whole local middle school was there en mass, and the minutes silence was impeccably observed.

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Not quite everywhere. Just about everything closes in NB.

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I'm pleased to hear you prove me wrong.

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Probably so are there employers; there may have been a few sick days otherwise.

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I was interested to read this on BBC website today - that Angela Merkel is the first German Chancellor to attend the formal ceremonies ...


""Speaking after the formal ceremonies, Mr Sarkozy told Mrs Merkel: "Your presence among us on this November 11th is a gesture of exceptional friendship - every French person knows how significant it is." Mrs Merkel responded: "Both dates, the end of the First World War, and the day of the fall of the Berlin Wall, remind us that we must always fight for the invaluable goods of peace and freedom, that we need to defend our values, of democracy and human rights, and that we keep working for European solidarity and partnership with America. That is our task."

Mr Sarkozy also said 11 November should not be a day to celebrate one country's win over another, and that it should be remembered that German children had cried for their dead fathers in exactly the same way as French children had.

Mrs Merkel said her country readily accepted the French gift of friendship and she thanked history for bringing the two nations together.""



Does anyone know what has been the stance previously in Germany - did they mark the same date as many other countries, or have a day of recognition of their own?

Excuse my ignorance. Do you know - it's not something I ever thought of before .... :o

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Its another case of political correctness gone mad.

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From the lest we forget thread...

"Beginning in 1939 the two-minute silence was moved to the Sunday nearest 11 November in order not to interfere with wartime production should 11 November fall on a weekday"

Thanks to Fledermaus...
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...&postcount=227

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I knew I'd read it on here. Should have credited Fledermaus in my first reply.

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I wonder whether that's a Northern Ireland thing or whether it varies from school to school. My wife taught in Kent until last year, and they had a service similar to the one at her school in Calgary.

Remembrance is still a huge deal in Folkestone, which is unsurprising when you consider that all the WW1 troops were stationed there en route to the front line and marched through the town to get to the harbour. Many subsequently returned to one of the large houses that were converted into war hospitals. The service at the cenotaph at the top of the Road of Remembrance is always very well attended on the Remembrance Sunday, as is the dedication of the Garden of Remembrance service a couple of weeks earlier. Canada Day is even a big event, with a service at the Canadian war cemetary to remember the Canadian contribution. On Remembrance Day itself, everything grinds to a halt at 11am, when the barage of guns sounds across the town, although few attend the 11 am service, as they are at work. In addition to this, there are several other services including Battle of Britain memorials and Veterens Day events. All of the events involve a wide variety of age groups, including children through schools and the many local cadet regiments.

Interestingly, when Remembrance Day falls on Remembrance Sunday, there are multiple events happening simultaneously, which detracts from the act of remembrance. For instance, representatives of French servicement in Etaples are not able to attend Folkestone, because they are attending their local service.

The Step Short project is currently working on a series of improvements to mark the 100th anniversary in 2014:
http://www.grand-uk.com/Step%20Short.html

One interesting thing though is the fate of the banners of old regiments. In the past, they were passed to local churches, and often displayed. However, churches are increasingly refusing to do so. Some have sited objection to the glorification of war and others health and safety, but it means that the old colours are instead being stored away from public viewing from local councils. I gather that dislpaying the banners is one of the objectives for Step Short.

There's also a separate proposal to preserve the railway line and harbour to mark their contributions to the war.
http://www.theremembranceline.org.uk/

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I think the significance of Frau Merkel's presence was that it was the first time a serving German Chancellor had attended the formalities at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier under the Arc de Triomphe. Germany has held its own Volkstrauertag (People's Day of Mourning) since 1919, originally during Lent but moved some time after WW2 to one of the Sundays just before Advent. Probably not entirely coicidentally, this means it sometimes falls on the same Sunday as the UK's remembrance services, but it has no direct links to Armistice Day

on edit: thanks to Wikipedia... Volkstrauertag is the second-to-last Sunday before Advent, i.e. the Sunday nearest 16 November. If my maths is right, that means that two years in every seven, Volkstrauertag is the same date as Remembrance Sunday.

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My girlfriend has a day off for Remembrance Day at taxpayers expense yet the lazy cow has not bothered to make my breakfast this morning. My Dad fought in WWII. This is another case of political correctness gone mad. :frown:

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It's the soup of the day.

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I'd sack her if I were you. In either sense of the word, as the whim takes you.:sneaky:

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I'd need to see pics before commenting. BUT you're obviously a gambling man Oak.:thumbup:

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He maybe a gambling man, but you're are a sick one. Wanting to see pics... ew!

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Thanks for responding Oak. I did actually do some googling after I wrote the question. Was just being lazy I think .... anyway, interesting stuff.

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A day's holiday for Remembrance Day seems rather frivolous to me after all a paid vacation is a good thing.

When I am at work when everyone stops for 2 minutes it has a deeper meaning to me compared to being at home, alone with no one to share the moment with. It seems to have more impact to be going about your normal day with a stop, when people stop still in the supermarkets and train stations.

Perhaps everyone who wants to commemorate with a days vacation should work and donate their earnings to the Legion.

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I think the point was you get the day off (if you get the day off) in order to go to the memorial, rather than sit around at home alone.

As its only bankers and government employees that seem to get it here, neither of which have much of a reputation for empathy / humanity anyway, its all rather a moot point anyway, they are probably all off shooting peasants or something;)

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My father died at Monte Cassino in Italy in 1944. He never met/saw me and vice versa. Of course when, as a child, I asked about him I was told stuff that made him, in my tiny mind, seem almost saintly. I know now, of course, that he was just an ordinary bloke, conscripted and sent off to war. He had no say in the matter.
Notwithstanding, today and every Remembrance Day, I think of him and the millions like him who never got a opportunity to fulfill their dreams, see their children grow up and hold and play with their grandchildren.
One of the most used pieces of film from WWll is that of the Normandy landings. Some of those young men were cut down as they entered the water and their bodies floated like flotsam for, God knows, how many hours.
War is a nasty, ugly business and should never be glorified, but we must never forget what men/women of every nationality, colour and creed did for us. Those who died or were injured, by their sacrifices, provided most of us with a relatively peaceful, safe and productive existence. Perhaps I'm somewhat overly sensitive, given my personal experiance, but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that, whatever little my father and his comrades did, I am living a good life because of it, as are billions of others.

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Yep, so if you don't go to the cenotaph then you should go to work. :thumbup: