Vespa club

Had a 2 week trip back to Yorkshire, lived in Vancouver for 24 years and it's been 10 years since I went back last.

I've been back in Vancouver for 3 weeks now and just musing on the differences between here and there, just my own ideas and I realise different for everybody.

Things I really liked about being in Yorkshire were;

1. To just be able to go to the local pub, take the kids and a dog without it being a problem. Also the lovely beer and the pub was built in 1630 and it's been a pub since then.
2. The history there! We went to York and walked on a 2 thousand year old wall and visited thousand year old churches, the last Viking leader there was called ' Eric Bloodaxe'.
3. Family! A double edged sword that one, but it was nice to see them.
4. Friends I grew up with and how after 10 years not seeing them we could just get along like we hadn't been apart.
5. My council estate/working class upbringing being understood by people. Seems like not many people 'get' that one over here, understandable I suppose, but is nice when you share the same values and had similar experiences etc... A picture of a kid with his kestrel Kes, and sticking 2 fingers up says a lot to me, to others it's just a skinny kid with a bird making some unknown hand gesture.
6. Having a laugh! I don't think I ever really have a laugh over here, everything seems really serious and hardly ever end up with what I'd call a great night out. No craich in Vancouver.
7. Being able to get on the train and visit Manchester, Leeds, York and Liverpool all within an hour and a half.
8. Walking up on the moors and not having to stay on a trail cut through the trees like here. I felt there was more to see and explore, although of course here in BC it is stunning.
9. relatively quick trips to Europe.




Things I like about being back in Vancouver;
1. Beautiful mountains and ocean.
2. So many fantastic food choices, restaurants here.
3. I'm a fitness nut, so there's so many ways you can be healthy here.
4. My house is here so always nice to get back and sleep in your own bed again.


My biggest gripe about living here? is lacking connection.

I want to say that I'm not trying to promote bigotry or racism here! I'm really not. However, I live in East Van and almost all my neighbours are Asian, mostly Hong Kong and China.
Many don't speak English and I can only speak English, so there's no small talk and the possibility of that leading to getting to know them better, almost none of getting to know them really well. T be honest I don't think I'd be going for dinner even if I spoke decent Cantonese as mine and their culture is really quite different.

Even amongst white English speaking people of which I am one, I still find that I can only get so close, then no closer.
It's as if I live a life permanently on a foreign holiday here. Nobody really wants to know any details about my life it seems, and they don't know about my life back in England or my family there and to be real most don't seem to give a hoot.

Not sure what to do, maybe a couple of trips back to UK and see how it feels after novelty has worn off.

Any ex pats want to share their likes and dislikes both here and back over there?

scilly

You couldn't pay me to live back in the UK!

I've lived in Vancouver for 50 years (on August 22), have had chances to move elsewhere in Canada, and have lived for several months at a time in other countries.

I might well take the chance to move somewhere else in Canada, or even across the Pacific to Australia or New Zealand, but never back to the UK

............. and that has been my feeling since the first week we were here!


Not sure what to say about your complaints re your neighbours and the community you are in.

We live on the west side of Vancouver, but in an affordable working class neighbourhood.

i have Chinese neighbours next door ......... his parents moved into the house 9 months after we bought our house back in 1972. Now the younger son has the house with his wife and 4 young children. We get along just fine.

Italians across the street.

Canadian lady married for well over 50 years to a guy from Poland, originally a DP before getting the chance to come here ........ and I'm sure you know what I mean by DP. Fantastic neighbours. Both they and the young couple next door have keys to our house for when we go away or if we need help.

I rejoice in the multitude of nationalities we have in this neighbourhood ............ although I do admit that many new immigrants are difficult to talk to. But I find that even very elderly ladies and gentlemen of another ethnicity walking down the street will respond to a smile and "hello"

I'm from Lancashire, we always owned our own house right from the day my parents married in 1928, but for all that I am working class. I bless the day we left England because now I can be known for what I am and what I have achieved instead of for my accent (still pretty strong Lancashire) and where I lived.

Ever been in the position of possibly preventing your OH getting a job that he wanted and was well qualified to do??? No? Well, I have ........... and it was based entirely on accent and where I lived, not on me, or my achievements (2 university degrees) or abilities.

That's the England I left with pleasure.

Vespa club

Hi Scilly, yep England 50 years ago was still divided by class back then for sure.
I work a lot on the west side and I joke to my friend there that he lives in a white enclave.

I don't know how much you get over by Renfrew Collingwood way but in this neighbourhood almost everyone is Asian, and for me it's not a good thing. If you think of Richmond then it's similar in this neighbourhood. It's not about not liking people, just about feeling connection, like belonging here and day to day interactions.

scilly

I most certainly do not live in a white enclave.

Not sure what gives you that idea about the west side.

The area I live is, as I said, basically working class, most older houses sell for much less than $2 million, new ones for $2.5-3 million, and well over 50% of the population is Chinese, with a small percentage of other Asians, including Japanese, Sikh, etc.


Even the very wealthy west side, west of Granville from the Fraser River north to ca 16th Avenue and in Shaughnessy, where the really expensive houses ($8 million and up) are found is no longer a white enclave .......... it seems most buyers in that area are from overseas. The longtime home owners might be almost all white, but that is not the case for new buyers.

Vancouver in other words is no longer a "white enclave" ............... it was for a long period a "British enclave" but even that had disappeared by the time we arrived in the 1960s. It had become a European city with areas where specific ethnicities tended to be more numerous that in other areas, simply because that is where they found previous immigrants and therefore stores and services catering to their need. Main St had several blocks that were a wonderful place to go for food, clothes, material, jewellry, etc sold by immigrants originally from India .............. they have now almost entirely moved to Surrey. My daughter and I bought some really beautiful silk, meant for making saris, there back around 1990/91 for an incredibly cheap price, and she made a really beautiful prom dress out of a dark green shot with gold.

I guess you never knew Robson Street west of Burrard when it was officially called Robsonstrasse because of all the wonderful German and Austrian restaurants, shops selling European food stuffs such as cheeses, and European news shops/bookstores. Now it is once again Robson Street, lined with new buildings containing "luxury stores'.


I do know your area ......... it used to be a very Italian neighbourhood, with incredible gardens (both veggie and flowers) grown by Italian men who had never been able to have a garden back home. It was a lovely area to drive through. It also had a lot of amenities that were excellent! The Renfrew/Collingwood Community Centre is, and has been, legendary for what is available there.

There are great views of the mountains and harbour from many areas, if I remember correctly.


What made you buy in that area if it is so unsuited to you?

Snowy560

Vespa Club I'm not sure what you're looking for in terms of responses. Are you seeing if others will agree with you that living among others from different cultures isn't great or what? What do you propose as the solution? That your neighbours move or that you do?

​​​​​​You could encounter a similar living environment in the UK depending on where you live. So you could move within Canada or back to Yorkshire. I doubt Vancouver is going to change.

But I for one am feeling rather uncomfortable reading your comments.

scilly

+1

Hence why I have said as much as I have

bats

Snowy560

Maybe it's because I'm Asian that I feel sensitive but Vespa's comments also rely on an assumption that there is a homogeneous readership on British Expats which I'm not actually sure is the case.

scilly

It's hard to tell, isn't it?

Just as it is hard to tell the sex of some people.

I'm afraid I think there might be more of a "white ethnicity" on many of the boards, including Canada, just from the comments that I see posted. There certainly is not a homogeneity, thank heavens!

Fortunately, I was raised differently, and have lived a very different life, and usually manage to keep quiet. I've also learned over my long life, and by living or visiting so many countries, that one has to put oneself out to get friends. They don't usually come to you, especially if you go around without greeting people.

But there are so many myths about Vancouver from newcomers and those who have not taken the time to study Canada's history, let alone Vancouver's.

scilly

A constant reference to Asians but no other nationality, unable to speak to them, and inference that there would be no reason to be friends even if invited for a meal becuase they still would have nothing in common????

If I walk the 7 or so blocks from my house to the local grocery store, I will usually see 4 or 5 elderly Chinese ladies and men ............. they don't look friendly, BUT if you smile, nod and say "hello" to them, they immediately smile back, bob their heads and say hello back.

That might be the only English they have, but they are eager to communicate. The smile alone is unbelievable.

These are men and women who have immigrated here in their 70s and 80s to be with families, there has been no requirement for them to speak English, their facial expressions show they are trying to communicate.

Similarly with other Asian ethnicities.

if you don't try, you won't get anywhere.

I've been the same when I've gone to France, Germany, Switzerland, etc ....... maybe I can say a little more than hello, but not that darned much. My French and German dates back to long-gone high school days!! But I've been to Hong Kong, Singapore, Fiji, etc etc etc ......... a smile, a nod and a hello gets a lot of reaction!

But I also know the area where Vespa lives, and again I question why he moved there. It isn't as if it has changed so dramatically in the last 5 or even 10 years!

We always advise people asking questions on here about where to buy a house, to check out the neighbourhood!!!!!

dbd33

Smiling and nodding is all very well, I have that level of communication with my dog and I enjoy it. It's not conversation though and I can see that it's not enough.

Siouxie

I don't see any nastiness in Vespa's post - I think they are reaching out for some helpful advice on how to find common ground and a mutual understanding.. where to find people who have a similar background, if you like.

Having lived in Hong Kong, I know a few basic words of Cantonese - hello - good morning, good evening / night - how are you - Oh my goodness! I want to buy 1 of those / this much; turn right, turn left, stop here, where is the railway station, - that's too expensive - can I have the bill please, (oh and one very very crude expression that shall remain unspoken, lol) but it's not like sitting down with someone who has the same 'roots' as you did and who you can feel connected to. I sometimes struggle to feel connected to a few Canadians I know -who speak English - just because our upbringing and mind sets are so different.. let alone trying to surmount the language barrier. A nod and a smile isn't making a connection, it's passing the time of day - as you would with anyone who was an acquaintance or someone you passed by regularly.

I still remember being invited over for Christmas day and for dinner to a friend who had a Chinese family (though she was originally a Brit, but was married to a local and had lived there for many years and was a fluent Cantonese speaker) and feeling a little out of place because I didn't speak their language to any degree of conversational level, didn't know what I was eating and didn't know what was 'expected' of me. That's not to say I didn't enjoy myself - and we remained friends for many years after - but that initial fear of the unknown and saying or doing the wrong thing, was quite unsettling on going there the first time. .

And the part you mentioned about nobody being interested in your life pre-Canada - I hear you. I have an exceptionally good friend who I have known for 14 years and socialise with regularly, but never once has she asked me about my life before I came to Canada.. never shown any interest in my travels or places I had lived.. nor anything else. I think some Canadians are very insular - Canada is all they have ever known and they have never wanted to go elsewhere nor have any real interest in learning about other cultures (that insular attitude grinds me down at times). One thing you have to bear in mind is that they have their 'circles' - people they grew up with / went to school or Uni with / friends they have known for years.. and they have their roots here.. it's not easy to break into those circles, but persevere Even if you don't have commonality, you can still have a great connection. Despite her lack of interest in my 'former life' my friend is one of the best I've ever had, in as much as she always has my back, is always there for me - visited me in hospital - and someone I know I can always rely on.

I think Vespa is feeling a little lost and perhaps a little lonely.. so how about we give them a break.. not everyone is comfortable putting themselves out there. If any of you live in the vicinity, how about reaching out and meeting up for a cuppa, a beer or a bite to eat.. I'm sure it would be welcomed.


Vespa, how about a Brit meet up group? Perhaps you might find a kindred spirit there https://www.meetup.com/find/?allMeetups=false&keywords=British+expats&radius=2 5&userFreeform=Vancouver%2C+BC&mcId=c857064&mcName =Vancouver%2C+British+Columbia%2C+CA&sort=default /
https://www.meetup.com/BritishExpat/

scilly

Siouxie ............... Vespa says he has lived in Vancouver for 24 years, and it is 10 years since he had last been back in the UK

That's a long time to have lived here.

Maybe he is just unsettled by what he found back in England. Which may, of course, be very different from what he would experience living there!

I've often found that family and friends in the UK are not interested in my life here, they're absorbed with their own lives.

.............. and how many times do WE ask Canadians, or other immigrants, about their previous lives?? Maybe we are also to blame, just a little bit.

I have many Canadian-born friends, we've often talked over the years about certain of their experiences ........... driving the Fraser Canyon when the road was built out on wood pylons, gravel roads everywhere, the old CP ferry hat went at midnight from downtown Vancouver to Nanaimo, etc etc etc ....................... but have I asked them about their school experiences, childhood friends, childhood games,ex-boyfriends/girlfriends, what was Christmas/New year like when they were children, etc etc??

Not very often!


BTW ........... that CP ferry was quite the experience!!! We took it once back around 1970. Full of drunken bu still drinking loggers going back to work in the woods!

Siouxie

I can't resist posting this.... one of my all time favourite songs, and relevant... but not wishing to derail the thread, hence the 'spoiler'

spouse of scouse

The pull of home, the peace of familiar surroundings, the delight in talking with people who share our memories, who 'remember when', people who just 'get' us - all can be very significant to those of us who've emigrated to other countries. Feeling that way isn't a rejection of our 'new' country, it's just a very human reaction to a very personal feeling of not being at home. Not everyone feels like that of course, but for those who do it has a huge impact and leads them to question both their present and their future.

Working through these feelings is absolutely essential, and that's why being able to chat with other expats is so important. Whether the responses are from people who feel the same or from those to whom such feelings are alien, the validation, differing perspectives and respectful challenging offered are all useful. Vespa, good on you for being so upfront, it can be difficult to put yourself out there (here!).