Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
Jun 15th 2018, 6:28 pm
#16
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: International Movers Canada to UK
Where I live a low level apartment building was being built with what looked like the flimsiest chipboard I've ever seen. Of course this chipboard frame was covered with finishings to make it look nice but I can't imagine the building lasting a long time. I see this use of chipboard frame used in most housing construction around here.
Jun 15th 2018, 6:32 pm
#17
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,375
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
I honestly, couldn't see anything wrong with the poll tax. If you are alive, you will likely need services that need to be paid for and everyone should pay for them. I fully appreciate that that doesn't fly these days and that the wealthy must pay more for services than the less wealthy. However, basing it upon the value of a house seems rather nonsense to me as I fail to see how, having a more expensive house, means one will use more services that someone with a less expensive house.
Jun 15th 2018, 6:37 pm
#18
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
I honestly, couldn't see anything wrong with the poll tax. If you are alive, you will likely need services that need to be paid for and everyone should pay for them. I fully appreciate that that doesn't fly these days and that the wealthy must pay more for services than the less wealthy. However, basing it upon the value of a house seems rather nonsense to me as I fail to see how, having a more expensive house, means one will use more services that someone with a less expensive house.
Jun 15th 2018, 8:01 pm
#19
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Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,874
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
There seems to be some support for keeping the property tax, but finding a way in which people who have owned a property for more than a certain number of years (I've heard 10 or 20 years as minimum) be granted a sort of "discount", paying less tax on a house of equivalent value than someone who bought last year or 5 years ago. One suggestion was that the property tax might increase by a slightly lower percentage each year for a long-time owner.
That sort of thing might help those owners who bought 30 or 40 years in what was even then an expensive area, paying $50,000 to $75,000 (though that as "expensive" sounds ridiculous these days) only to have that house now assessed at $5 or $6 million.
I know that houses in eg Shaughnessy in Vancouver were selling for that in the early 1970s, and are now worth $7 million or much more. We decided we couldn't even afford to go look at them when we were looking at buying, even though our realtor offered to take me to one open house!
Instead we decided that we wanted to use only 1 salary, and hence bought this house.
Even that was considered too expensive by some people ................. $23,000-25,000 was considered a good price by many.
That sort of thing might help those owners who bought 30 or 40 years in what was even then an expensive area, paying $50,000 to $75,000 (though that as "expensive" sounds ridiculous these days) only to have that house now assessed at $5 or $6 million.
I know that houses in eg Shaughnessy in Vancouver were selling for that in the early 1970s, and are now worth $7 million or much more. We decided we couldn't even afford to go look at them when we were looking at buying, even though our realtor offered to take me to one open house!
Instead we decided that we wanted to use only 1 salary, and hence bought this house.
Even that was considered too expensive by some people ................. $23,000-25,000 was considered a good price by many.
Jun 15th 2018, 8:05 pm
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,375
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
I thought it only came in in Scotland and that the revolt occurred before it was imposed upon the rest of the UK.
Jun 15th 2018, 8:11 pm
#21
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,375
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
There seems to be some support for keeping the property tax, but finding a way in which people who have owned a property for more than a certain number of years (I've heard 10 or 20 years as minimum) be granted a sort of "discount", paying less tax on a house of equivalent value than someone who bought last year or 5 years ago. One suggestion was that the property tax might increase by a slightly lower percentage each year for a long-time owner.
That sort of thing might help those owners who bought 30 or 40 years in what was even then an expensive area, paying $50,000 to $75,000 (though that as "expensive" sounds ridiculous these days) only to have that house now assessed at $5 or $6 million.
I know that houses in eg Shaughnessy in Vancouver were selling for that in the early 1970s, and are now worth $7 million or much more. We decided we couldn't even afford to go look at them when we were looking at buying, even though our realtor offered to take me to one open house!
Instead we decided that we wanted to use only 1 salary, and hence bought this house.
Even that was considered too expensive by some people ................. $23,000-25,000 was considered a good price by many.
That sort of thing might help those owners who bought 30 or 40 years in what was even then an expensive area, paying $50,000 to $75,000 (though that as "expensive" sounds ridiculous these days) only to have that house now assessed at $5 or $6 million.
I know that houses in eg Shaughnessy in Vancouver were selling for that in the early 1970s, and are now worth $7 million or much more. We decided we couldn't even afford to go look at them when we were looking at buying, even though our realtor offered to take me to one open house!
Instead we decided that we wanted to use only 1 salary, and hence bought this house.
Even that was considered too expensive by some people ................. $23,000-25,000 was considered a good price by many.
Allowing it to increase simply because one's property value is increasing is insane and bears no relation to what the services cost to deliver. I always thought that the mill rate affected how much people actually paid but it doesn't concern me enough to lose any sleep about it as, fortunately, the municipality in which I live is relatively good at not paying over the odds for the services provided to its residents.
Jun 15th 2018, 10:05 pm
#22
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,861
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
As I saw it:
Advantage of the old General Rates was that your property had a Rateable Value and the amount payable was based on that. You paid whatever amount per £ of the RV, rather like the rate per $ of assessed value here. Rates payable did not increase simply because property prices did. There was some recognition of individual wealth with it, in that the more expensive house (relative to others), the more money you're likely to have, in the same way that you spend $2000 on a washer and dryer knowing your tax is going to be twice as much as if you bought a pair for $1000.
The disadvantage was the single person paying as much as the house next door with Mr and Mrs Average and their adult offspring and all waged.
While the Poll Tax/Council Tax addressed the inequality a little - with the Sole Occupancy Reduction - the "valuation" part seemed somewhat arbitrary and over valued. My 2 bed terraced house, for example, had the same 'band' has 3 bed houses built 40 years later at the other end of the street and bigger houses opposite me that had three storeys. The back gardens on my side and at my end were all smaller (and up steps) than all the other gardens further up and across the street.
According to rightmove, recent sales show big differences between my bit and the others.
I qualified for the sole occupancy rate but my bill under the new system was still a fair bit more. I appealed but lost as it compared to others - even though they were bigger and/or newer.
The really unpopular part of the Poll Tax was charging for each adult, which went from one bill per home to multiple bills per home.
You might argue that 4 adults in one house produce 4 times as much garbage to collect - but that doesn't mean the costs of collecting that garbage are 4 times that of the solely occupied house next door. Ditto for the costs of providing Library services - they might need to provide more books for 4 to borrow instead of 1, but the greater costs are the running of the library - building and staff.
In any case, expenses like that are mid-range. I've just been googling some council spending and the larger costs are those relating to care of adults and children. Throw in children's education and that's more than half council spending which has no relation to services per property. Charging multiple amounts for each person in a property (especially an over valued one) is what caused the bad feeling.
Advantage of the old General Rates was that your property had a Rateable Value and the amount payable was based on that. You paid whatever amount per £ of the RV, rather like the rate per $ of assessed value here. Rates payable did not increase simply because property prices did. There was some recognition of individual wealth with it, in that the more expensive house (relative to others), the more money you're likely to have, in the same way that you spend $2000 on a washer and dryer knowing your tax is going to be twice as much as if you bought a pair for $1000.
The disadvantage was the single person paying as much as the house next door with Mr and Mrs Average and their adult offspring and all waged.
While the Poll Tax/Council Tax addressed the inequality a little - with the Sole Occupancy Reduction - the "valuation" part seemed somewhat arbitrary and over valued. My 2 bed terraced house, for example, had the same 'band' has 3 bed houses built 40 years later at the other end of the street and bigger houses opposite me that had three storeys. The back gardens on my side and at my end were all smaller (and up steps) than all the other gardens further up and across the street.
According to rightmove, recent sales show big differences between my bit and the others.
I qualified for the sole occupancy rate but my bill under the new system was still a fair bit more. I appealed but lost as it compared to others - even though they were bigger and/or newer.
The really unpopular part of the Poll Tax was charging for each adult, which went from one bill per home to multiple bills per home.
You might argue that 4 adults in one house produce 4 times as much garbage to collect - but that doesn't mean the costs of collecting that garbage are 4 times that of the solely occupied house next door. Ditto for the costs of providing Library services - they might need to provide more books for 4 to borrow instead of 1, but the greater costs are the running of the library - building and staff.
In any case, expenses like that are mid-range. I've just been googling some council spending and the larger costs are those relating to care of adults and children. Throw in children's education and that's more than half council spending which has no relation to services per property. Charging multiple amounts for each person in a property (especially an over valued one) is what caused the bad feeling.
Jun 15th 2018, 10:06 pm
#23
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Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,874
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
If the purpose of property tax is to pay for local services, everyone should pay the same and, if that isn't "fair enough" for those that believe that the wealthy should always pay more, base it upon income.
Allowing it to increase simply because one's property value is increasing is insane and bears no relation to what the services cost to deliver. I always thought that the mill rate affected how much people actually paid but it doesn't concern me enough to lose any sleep about it as, fortunately, the municipality in which I live is relatively good at not paying over the odds for the services provided to its residents.
Allowing it to increase simply because one's property value is increasing is insane and bears no relation to what the services cost to deliver. I always thought that the mill rate affected how much people actually paid but it doesn't concern me enough to lose any sleep about it as, fortunately, the municipality in which I live is relatively good at not paying over the odds for the services provided to its residents.
You are quite correct of course ........... the property tax in BC does pay for all local services.
Nor do we lose any sleep because we know what it is paying for. Not only schools, hospitals, etc but the work currently being done in our immediate neighbourhood or replacing and improving sewer, water and gas services. Yes, it is a mess, and it is hard to find our way around the neighbourhood at times (they are working on several streets at once) ...... but it will be over soon.
Nor are we the kind of seniors who complain about having to pay the school tax when we now don't use that service.
As far as I am concerned, there is a lot of politically-driven angst re the increases, driven by a party that is still smarting at having lost the election last year, the new leader of which lives in a very valuable house and thereby facing paying a larger amount by July 4.
Jun 15th 2018, 10:11 pm
#24
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
You are quite correct of course ........... the property tax in BC does pay for all local services.
Nor do we lose any sleep because we know what it is paying for. Not only schools, hospitals, etc but the work currently being done in our immediate neighbourhood or replacing and improving sewer, water and gas services. Yes, it is a mess, and it is hard to find our way around the neighbourhood at times (they are working on several streets at once) ...... but it will be over soon.
Nor are we the kind of seniors who complain about having to pay the school tax when we now don't use that service.
As far as I am concerned, there is a lot of politically-driven angst re the increases, driven by a party that is still smarting at having lost the election last year, the new leader of which lives in a very valuable house and thereby facing paying a larger amount by July 4.
Nor do we lose any sleep because we know what it is paying for. Not only schools, hospitals, etc but the work currently being done in our immediate neighbourhood or replacing and improving sewer, water and gas services. Yes, it is a mess, and it is hard to find our way around the neighbourhood at times (they are working on several streets at once) ...... but it will be over soon.
Nor are we the kind of seniors who complain about having to pay the school tax when we now don't use that service.
As far as I am concerned, there is a lot of politically-driven angst re the increases, driven by a party that is still smarting at having lost the election last year, the new leader of which lives in a very valuable house and thereby facing paying a larger amount by July 4.
I wish the city would come to our area and fix the roads, some are in horrendous shape..... Most well used public service in this area is the police, never seen so much police activity, but we are in between DTES and East Vancouver, so we get some interesting characters in this area....
Last week someone went into the No Frills and apparently poured gasoline on the floor......
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jun 15th 2018 at 10:14 pm.
Jun 16th 2018, 3:20 am
#25
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Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
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Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
I wish the city would come to our area and fix the roads, some are in horrendous shape..... Most well used public service in this area is the police, never seen so much police activity, but we are in between DTES and East Vancouver, so we get some interesting characters in this area....
Last week someone went into the No Frills and apparently poured gasoline on the floor......
Last week someone went into the No Frills and apparently poured gasoline on the floor......
As far as I can make out, or understand from what various workers are telling us .......
they will dig the road, lay new sewers and make the connections to the houses, then they will fill, level and cover with gravel
some time later, guys will come, dig up the gravel stretch, lay new water pipes, make the connections, then fill, level and cover with gravel
some time later, the last lot (we hope!) will dig up the gravel, lay new gas pipes, make the connections, fill, level and hopefully pave the dug up parts. We MIGHT be lucky and get the whole street paved so it will be nice and smooth
At some point the back lanes have to dug up in the same sequence.
New electricity has not been mentioned.
Time mentioned so far is 2 years.
I think the longest time a newly paved road remains smooth is less than 6 months, more often 1 month ............... the first demolition of a house needs new connections for the re-build.
Jun 16th 2018, 7:27 am
#26
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,185
Re: International Movers Canada to UK
We have been in Canada 11 years and left the UK when it was rapidly heading south. We always planned to live in the Okanagan but for one reason or another never made it there. We moved to Victoria about 5 years ago but have become so disappointed with Canada and have no confidence in the leadership no matter what political party is in power. The seems to be no concept of planning or financial control here. Its run by the few for the few. They are developing the crap out of the place building the most cheap and ugly condos everywhere (I thought Surrey was bad until we moved to the Island). There is virtually no infrastructure planning and traffic is becoming a big problem. The cost of living is rising exponentially in Victoria, ICBC up 50% in 3 years, Property tax up 50% in 3 years, water up 42% in 4 years, sewage up 500% over 5 years, Hydro up 120% over 10 years and just everything going up in double digits each year. My wife and I have very good jobs but how an earth anyone can survive in BC is beyond me. Crazy politics. I would strongly advise anyone considering moving to BC seriously do their research to see if they can survive here. We have kept most of our bills since first arriving in BC and just about everything has gone up over 100% in 11 years. Salaries are virtually static, salary up 0.5%, 0.3% and 1% over past 8 years. On the positive side we have made a fortune on our property and makes moving back to the UK very viable. Just to put it in perspective our friends in South Langley have just been paid $4 million to vacate their tare-down in Brookswood! Our other friends across the road had an Asian realtor knocked on his door the other week and offered him $4 million for his house he paid $1.4 million a couple of years ago. We went back to the UK last year for a few weeks and for the first time in many years we did not want to return to BC. We are seriously considering retiring to Cornwall or Devon which we found much more affordable compared to BC. I cannot see how pensioners on a fixed income can possibly survive in BC. Just about every reason we moved here no longer applies and we are sick and tired of the nepotism which seems to abound here. My wife and I both work for Healthcare or Crown corporations and have been stunned but what we see day by day. The incompetence, the lazyness, unjustified sickness, unwilling to change, entitlement, nepotism, and so on. Its ground us down over the years and we cannot wait for retirement. We have to wait for are youngest to complete high school then we are planning to move back to the UK.
Jun 16th 2018, 12:01 pm
#27
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,351
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
I honestly, couldn't see anything wrong with the poll tax. If you are alive, you will likely need services that need to be paid for and everyone should pay for them. I fully appreciate that that doesn't fly these days and that the wealthy must pay more for services than the less wealthy. However, basing it upon the value of a house seems rather nonsense to me as I fail to see how, having a more expensive house, means one will use more services that someone with a less expensive house.
Property owners at the time were given tax incentives to purchase property (MIRAS) - it seemed as if it was just another callous Tory twist to transfer wealth to their core support. Make everyone including the poor pay for things, but give the benefits only to the well off.
Well, that's how I see it. And I was in Trafalgar Square THAT day...
Jun 16th 2018, 1:24 pm
#28
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Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Looe, Cornwall
Posts: 674
Re: International Movers Canada to UK
While I am no fan of Canada, either, I would be very reluctant to return to the UK. The country has a lot of problems similar to those in Canada. And house prices are not exactly a bargain. As someone who lived in Devon for many years, before coming to Canada, I can assure you that a rural idyll is not a great bet for someone in their retirement. There is a widespread shortage of GPs, transport links are out-dated or non-existent and, frankly, the people from "up the line" have ruined any local flavour there may have been. Now I will admit that living in Novs Scotia, we have the same set of problems, but spending many thousands of dollars to move back, just to get the same set of problems, would seem to be a little counterproductive/. ,
Jun 16th 2018, 1:29 pm
#29
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Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Looe, Cornwall
Posts: 674
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
I wish the city would come to our area and fix the roads, some are in horrendous shape..... Most well used public service in this area is the police, never seen so much police activity, but we are in between DTES and East Vancouver, so we get some interesting characters in this area....
Last week someone went into the No Frills and apparently poured gasoline on the floor......
Last week someone went into the No Frills and apparently poured gasoline on the floor......
Jun 16th 2018, 1:57 pm
#30
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Looe, Cornwall
Posts: 674
Re: Reasons we moved / are moving out of Canada
You are quite correct of course ........... the property tax in BC does pay for all local services.
Nor do we lose any sleep because we know what it is paying for. Not only schools, hospitals, etc but the work currently being done in our immediate neighbourhood or replacing and improving sewer, water and gas services. Yes, it is a mess, and it is hard to find our way around the neighbourhood at times (they are working on several streets at once) ...... but it will be over soon.
Nor are we the kind of seniors who complain about having to pay the school tax when we now don't use that service.
As far as I am concerned, there is a lot of politically-driven angst re the increases, driven by a party that is still smarting at having lost the election last year, the new leader of which lives in a very valuable house and thereby facing paying a larger amount by July 4.
Nor do we lose any sleep because we know what it is paying for. Not only schools, hospitals, etc but the work currently being done in our immediate neighbourhood or replacing and improving sewer, water and gas services. Yes, it is a mess, and it is hard to find our way around the neighbourhood at times (they are working on several streets at once) ...... but it will be over soon.
Nor are we the kind of seniors who complain about having to pay the school tax when we now don't use that service.
As far as I am concerned, there is a lot of politically-driven angst re the increases, driven by a party that is still smarting at having lost the election last year, the new leader of which lives in a very valuable house and thereby facing paying a larger amount by July 4.