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Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Old Jan 19th 2022, 8:10 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
Just curious, but are you paying their university fees?
No. They both started working as early as they could (aged 14 I believe, but I would have to check) and, to date, most of their fees have been covered by scholarships. They have the benefit of a RESP we paid into but, so far, they haven't had to use any of it. Again, the elder was not interested in drunken parties and the younger has not been able to attend in person due to covid.

I accept that that is not everyone's idea of a great student experience but that is a choice that they made.

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Old Jan 19th 2022, 8:12 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
All valid points.

I don't advocate that anyone should only rely upon the state pension for a happy retirement.

I am somewhat fortunate in that I get to see the assets, liabilities and incomes of a very wide range of people on a daily basis. From what I see, it doesn't appear to matter whether one has a fantastic income, a middle level income or a minimum wage type of income. The vast majority of people have lots of debt (usually proportionate to their income), have minimal savings but spend huge amounts on vacations and gadgets. That, of course, is entirely a matter for them. But they shouldn't be surprised if, in light of what they have chosen to put their income into, they may struggle in retirement.

It appears to me that you can spend it now, or you can spend it later. Outside of government workers, very few people are able to do both.
I missed out on a lot of vacations and avocado toast because of trying to be sensible and mortgaged.
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Old Jan 19th 2022, 9:34 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post

If spousal support has been paid for a long time, it is normal for the Court to expect the other spouse to become self-sufficient at some time so if, for example, one party has been paying the other $5,000 for 10 years, the Court will want to know why the other party continues to require spousal support.
Because she's a woman, subject to systemic discrimination, and therefore unable to earn as much as a man. Because the "retirement" is just a means of reducing income in order to evade the support payments. I understand that these points are arguable but the cost of having them argued it is, in itself, ruinous. That cost alone would be a barrier to retirement.

The CRA accepts spousal support as a deduction after 30 odd years so I have to think that long term payment is accepted practise. I don't know how long the CRA will allow the deduction, my heirs or successors will have to post on that.

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Old Jan 19th 2022, 10:45 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Once again, you are the one moving the goalposts, not me..
You said you didn't understand why people today would think they had a worse outlook.
I referred you to a series of articles about people in the sort of jobs currently, you know, today, that in the past would have seen them in good standards of living but not being able to afford heating costs, food, housing and all the rest of it.
And you came back with examples of several people and circumstances way back in the past.

And you say that it's me that moved the goalposts.

You ask about people today, I give you examples of people today and you come back with people of "yesterday".

Do you understand English?
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Old Jan 19th 2022, 11:01 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Because she's a woman, subject to systemic discrimination, and therefore unable to earn as much as a man. Because the "retirement" is just a means of reducing income in order to evade the support payments. I understand that these points are arguable but the cost of having them argued it is, in itself, ruinous. That cost alone would be a barrier to retirement.

The CRA accepts spousal support as a deduction after 30 odd years so I have to think that long term payment is accepted practise. I don't know how long the CRA will allow the deduction, my heirs or successors will have to post on that.
Spousal support is not supposed to equalize earnings, it is supposed to aid one party to get over the initial shock of the financial consequences of the breakdown of the marriage. Once you die, so should your spousal support so your heir or successors have little to worry about.

Sometimes, child support is secured by an insurance policy, or by a first charge against the estate but, as property would have been divided in the divorce, it would be most unusual to have the other spouse "double dip" by getting a share of the property, and then a further share of the property upon the death of the other.
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Old Jan 19th 2022, 11:06 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
You said you didn't understand why people today would think they had a worse outlook.
I referred you to a series of articles about people in the sort of jobs currently, you know, today, that in the past would have seen them in good standards of living but not being able to afford heating costs, food, housing and all the rest of it.
And you came back with examples of several people and circumstances way back in the past.

And you say that it's me that moved the goalposts.

You ask about people today, I give you examples of people today and you come back with people of "yesterday".

Do you understand English?
I don't believe that younger people today have a worse outlook than they did 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 or 50 years ago. I accept that you do. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mind. Why don't we leave it at that?
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Old Jan 19th 2022, 11:59 pm
  #37  
 
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I honestly don't know why a 39 year old primary school teacher wouldn't be able to afford to purchase a property in Reading. The first place I lived when I left home was Reading.

My mother was able to raise 3 children under the age of 9 after my father died, 2 years after purchasing their first house, working minimum wage jobs. I was able to purchase a house in Worcester, earning 10,000 pounds a year while I was attending law classes in the evenings. 2 of our children were born during that time and a third was born a year into my 2 year part time legal practice course (the UK equivalent of North America's bar exam). I say this to point out that we were able to do this before I became a lawyer (as I anticipate that I will be hit with the usual "you are a wealthy lawyer, what do you know?").

We drove shitty cars, panicked when they needed repairs, ate basic foods and wore cheap clothes. We lived within our means and, as our income increased, so did our spending but we never spent more than we earned and we were able to put something away for retirement even then.

I thought we were talking about pensions. Put simply, anyone that takes vacations to foreign lands now, drives a nice car, purchases the latest Iphone at the expense of putting something away for retirement is taking a gamble with not being able to live comfortably in retirement. I genuinely belive that there are very few people that are not able to have a comfortable retirement unless they elect to retire too early. I appreciate that one's finances can take a battering by events that life throws at them (divorce can be particularly devastating).

I accept that it is not easy, but it is not impossible either.

Household income needed to buy in Reading - 60,000 pounds/2-bed flat, average starter home price 270,000, 15% deposit needed.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/pr...shire-18556302

Primary school teacher salary in the UK - average 27,579 thousand pounds

https://www.cv-library.co.uk/salary-...ad%20of%20Year.

Reading is the cheap part of Berkshire, btw.



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Old Jan 20th 2022, 12:20 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Spousal support is not supposed to equalize earnings, it is supposed to aid one party to get over the initial shock of the financial consequences of the breakdown of the marriage. Once you die, so should your spousal support so your heir or successors have little to worry about.

Sometimes, child support is secured by an insurance policy, or by a first charge against the estate but, as property would have been divided in the divorce, it would be most unusual to have the other spouse "double dip" by getting a share of the property, and then a further share of the property upon the death of the other.

Oh, I meant only that my heirs would have to report how long the deduction was valid because I'll be claiming it until I'm dead.

As far as the death arrangements go, I do have an insurance policy to maintain the payments if I die first but, at some point, the premiums will be unreasonable; already they're three times the original cost. My intent there is just to stop paying them, maybe at age 75, and see if my former spouse takes any legal action.

Property in Ontario is difficult to direct after death. I understand that, whatever I may will, my current spouse can claim it anyway so, for example, the insurance policy directed to my former spouse, and covered by the divorce agreement, is subject to claim. Inordinately complicated arrangements are needed to ensure that the terms of the divorce agreement (essentially spousal support until death of one of the parties and subsequently if the deceased is the payor) will be honoured despite the potential intervention of a subsequent spouse. I believe it's all organized now but retirement is laughably infeasible.

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Old Jan 20th 2022, 1:53 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Household income needed to buy in Reading - 60,000 pounds/2-bed flat, average starter home price 270,000, 15% deposit needed.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/pr...shire-18556302

Primary school teacher salary in the UK - average 27,579 thousand pounds

https://www.cv-library.co.uk/salary-...ad%20of%20Year.

Reading is the cheap part of Berkshire, btw.
I am familiar with Reading and its surroundings.

Average covers all manner of things and is not particularly useful, IMVHO. She will also receive child support but it has been so long since I practiced in the UK that I have no idea how much that will provide to her. We also don't know what has happened in her past. I would estimate that most 39 year old teachers in Reading have their own houses but I accept that that may not be the case.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 8:40 pm
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I am familiar with Reading and its surroundings.

Average covers all manner of things and is not particularly useful, IMVHO. She will also receive child support but it has been so long since I practiced in the UK that I have no idea how much that will provide to her. We also don't know what has happened in her past. I would estimate that most 39 year old teachers in Reading have their own houses but I accept that that may not be the case.

I doubt child support will amount to 30,000 pound per year, plus enough to set aside a further 30k as a downpayment?

This is from RightMove:

"Properties in Reading had an overall average price of £388,034 over the last year. The majority of sales in Reading during the last year were semi-detached properties, selling for an average price of £405,037. Terraced properties sold for an average of £317,014, with detached properties fetching £581,612. Overall, sold prices in Reading over the last year were 6% up on the previous year and 7% up on the 2019 peak of £361,258."

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/reading.html




It's not looking great for the primary school teacher with children.

The affordable housing shortage in the UK is real. I work with an organisation that deals with some of the fallout from it. It isn't something that is due to people living beyond their means other than individual anecdotes, it's a function of supply going up against inadequate wages.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 11:09 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I doubt child support will amount to 30,000 pound per year, plus enough to set aside a further 30k as a downpayment?

This is from RightMove:

"Properties in Reading had an overall average price of £388,034 over the last year. The majority of sales in Reading during the last year were semi-detached properties, selling for an average price of £405,037. Terraced properties sold for an average of £317,014, with detached properties fetching £581,612. Overall, sold prices in Reading over the last year were 6% up on the previous year and 7% up on the 2019 peak of £361,258."

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/reading.html




It's not looking great for the primary school teacher with children.

The affordable housing shortage in the UK is real. I work with an organisation that deals with some of the fallout from it. It isn't something that is due to people living beyond their means other than individual anecdotes, it's a function of supply going up against inadequate wages.
I appreciate that. Most people as first time buyers, don't buy 4 bedroomed detached properties. They start with something they can afford and work up. As I stated, I suspect that there are other factors at work here.

Are you seriously suggesting that all 39 year old primary school teachers in Reading do not have residences they own? If not, what occupations own the houses in Reading?
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Old Jan 21st 2022, 5:57 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I appreciate that. Most people as first time buyers, don't buy 4 bedroomed detached properties. They start with something they can afford and work up. As I stated, I suspect that there are other factors at work here.

Are you seriously suggesting that all 39 year old primary school teachers in Reading do not have residences they own? If not, what occupations own the houses in Reading?
Most mortgages require TWO good professional wages to qualify.
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Old Jan 21st 2022, 6:59 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

On a side note, owning a home isn’t for everyone. In Canada ownership rate is about 70% vs 50% in Germany and 65% in the UK.
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Old Jan 23rd 2022, 5:29 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Originally Posted by Mordko View Post
On a side note, owning a home isn’t for everyone. In Canada ownership rate is about 70% vs 50% in Germany and 65% in the UK.
True, but in Germany the private rental market isn't dominated by rapacious BTL landlords who view tenants as a necessary evil on the path to enrichment. The social contract is quite different.
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Old Jan 24th 2022, 1:41 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad

Yes, they have a much nicer breed of humans in Germany. Famous for it. German landlords get into BTL especially to get poor. Completely different.

No idea why German renters had massive demonstrations against high rent prices just a few months ago.

By the way, most Ontario landlords are subsidizing renters.

Last edited by Mordko; Jan 24th 2022 at 1:44 am.
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