Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Yes.

Funny isn't it. Tickets for football matches given to officials, players etc that find their way into the wrong hands are traced back to those responsible who are punished by the authorities.

But not guns.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

I am sure they will determine where he got the gun at some point, but if it had been stolen, who knows how many hands it went through before ending up with him.

Based on his drug problems, and street life, I am sure he could obtain one on the black market without much difficulty.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

True, I am sure he could get hold of one easier than the unarmed guard at the door to parliament! That this obvous hole in the Parliaments security was not covered long before now is tatamount to neglect! Oh wait, having someone armed at that door would send the wrong message about Canada....Yea, you got that right!!!

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

He used an old long gun that held 5 rounds only and had to be reloaded prior to killing with. The head of "rumour control" says he most likely stole the gun off of some ones wall.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

The one I had held 6 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber and most 30-30's were the same. Winchester manufactured these until 8 years ago but they're still made under license offshore and imported. If it had a steel butt-plate it's pre 1964. Mine was made in 1948. Arguably the most popular deer rifle ever made there could be a million or more still in use in Canada. Age isn't everything (he said slyly), my Springfield is 101 years old and still delivers sub minute-of-angle accuracy.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Right. You have a gun in your house, there's a burglary and the gun is stolen, you do report it to the police (or fail to report it if your ownership is a bit dodgy and it wasn't registered). That gun now circulates on the street until someone uses it to shoot someone else. While in circulation it's worth a lot of money - even more if the serial number is removed.

Take Chicago, with the strictest gun control laws in the USA...well, you take Chicago, please. Come to think of it, you Canucks once invaded the US and seized both Detroit and Chicago (August 1812). We're willing to return both.:thumbsup:

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

They x-ray serial # spaces on motorcycles now to see if numbers have been removed and new ones stamped over, I wonder if they can do the same with firearms? If it was purchased new before 1979 there may be no record at all.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

It might have passed through so many hands as to render all the rules (and any new ones) pointless.

Or it might not.

I'm always a bit puzzled when people say it's quite easy to get guns especially when they suggest popping over the border to get one.

That one needs to "get in" with criminals to get one would likely put otherwise law abiding citizens off in the first place. I'm not about to ask around where I might get a gun and then take a load of cash to some dodgy situation and meet a total stranger engaged in criminal activities. Hands up anyone else who is. ;)

And that's without adding the risks of going through border controls.

Not everyone is going to be deterred by strict laws of course, but some will be. Some is better than nobody.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Every so often there will be a news item about a trucker or tourist or whoever with 6 or 10 handguns heading north intercepted at the local border crossings here. I assume they're destined for gangsters of some sort and probably just the tip of the iceberg. I don't know if it's a fact but it seems over the past decade the weapons used in our hold-ups have changed from nearly always knives to more and more guns. We still seem to have more people stabbed than shot though.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Only if the consequences of preventing the law-abiding from owning guns are no worse than the benefits of keeping them out of the hands of those 'some'.

People who are determined to murder others don't have much trouble finding weapons to do so. Ignoring acts of terrorism and genocide, I believe you'll find the most deadly mass murder in America was committed with a can of gas and a match. This case just shows how ineffective guns are as weapons of mass murder when some of the intended victims are armed. Sadly, the terrorist nutters may learn from this and use something more effective next time... or go somewhere where their victims won't be armed.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Ok, let me see if I can parse that argument.

There are consequences from preventing law abiding citizens from owning guns? I don't think so, but if it's a breach of the law to fail to register ownership of a gun, then there would be (were) no law abiding owners of unregistered guns in the first place.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

My guns have no serial numbers, some brands didn't until quite recently. When I got the first one I phoned the gun registry and explained and they sent me a sticker with a number to use as the gun's number. I lost it and subsequently didn't bother. There must be very many numberless guns in Canada, thousands certainly.

I'm not sure this matters, I don't see that there's more value in tracing a gun used in a crime than a knife or hammer. So long as the implement is freely available people will buy it and use it, some will use it for crime.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

[QUOTE=dbd33;11450730]My guns have no serial numbers. [Quote]
That's ok, I have one with two different serial numbers, never had a gun without one but know they're out there.

There was a documentary about a 'pipeline' for guns bought down in the southern US and seized in Toronto. A whole bunch came from one store with an unscrupulous owner (traced through serial numbers).

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Well to be fair long guns are very rarely used in Canada by criminals, long gun homicides for example make up 0.1 per 100,000 people. You have to look at the long gun registry from a cost effective point of view. Lets say Canada still had the long gun registry, how many crimes does it deter? Let say it lowered the long gun homicide rate for example by 10% or in other-words reduced the long gun homicide rate by 0.01 per 100,000 people. Lets say this gun registry is costing $10 million dollars a year to reduce the long gun homicide rate by 0.01 per 100,000. Would you say that is money well spent or would you say there are other ways to reduce the long gun homicide rate by 0.01 per 100,000 dollars that don't cost 10 million dollars a year?

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

No, you really don't.

Hardly any airliners burst into flames on landing, for example, but only a fool would suggest that keeping maintenance logs of fire suppression systems on aircraft is not a good idea. Your logic is as flawed.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

I understand our government has a parallel program to its "Fast & Furious" operation that was aimed at Mexico. For our friends in Canada we have "Operation Slow & Polite." They were going to call it "Canadian Bacon II" but felt that might offend the easily offended up north.;)

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

If you don't want to fine but the truth of the matter is that the long gun registry is not very cost effective and considering you have a limited budget it would be wise to make decisions that give you the best value and if you can achieve the same reduction in the long gun crime rate by using a different tool that costs less then what exactly is the reason not to pick that one over the more expensive one? Also lets say you spend the money on the long gun registry only saves one life a year, now what if I tell you that the same money spent on something else like lets say on Health Care, like more Ambulances or paying for more doctors and that saves more than 1 life each year how do you defend spending all that money to save just one life when you could have saved even more lives spending it on something else? There is also very little evidence that registries prevent the misuse of a product or deter criminal behavior. For example California and Ohio are seriously considering getting rid of the Sex Offender registry as there is very little evidence that it works. There is also no evidence that Car Registries cause people to drive safer or deter theft/carjackings or deter unlicensed drivers from getting a car and driving on public roads. Perhaps you can show me a study that shows motor vehicles registries work at preventing such activities. Perhaps you can show a study that shows that the registry of guns in any country alone causes gun crimes to decrease.

Also who says the maintenance logs of a fire suppression system on an aircraft is not cost effective? One could argue that without those maintenance logs that one is sure the plane would burst into flames upon landing at some point.

I doubt the same can be said of registries that are meant to deter criminal behavior.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

A mind-boggled say what? from me. You're against the idea of registering cars?

You're a newbie (or at least an infrequent poster) so I'm supposed to be nice. But f**k it, you're a nut job.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

The reason why cars are registered is to create an annual tax to help pay for road maintenance. It's why car size/weight is taken into account in terms of deciding how much you pay to register the car.

If you honestly believe that the primary reason why cars are registered is to help fight crime then you are mistaken.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

I'm not mistaken. But I took a moment to look at your posting history. That's quite sufficient for me to put you on ignore matey. Nut-job.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

I believe the insurance rates have more to do with cost of repairs and the data on which types of car are more likely to be written off, and so new cars cost more to plate. Don't pay any attention to Novo, he's just upset that none of his outlandish predictions (Rob and Doug Ford charged with conspiracy to commit murder, Stephen Harper charged with obstruction in the Duffy/Wright case) have come to pass.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

In BC all registration seems to do is prove who the owner is, get the license plate and insurance.

I don't really see any registration fee such as some places have, but maybe its all built into the total insurance premium per year.

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

From Irish Central (irishcentral.com):

New details confirm Irish Canadian Kevin Vickers the hero of Parliament shootout
(Something our press neglected to mention)

Re: Ottawa shootings
 

Vickers was born in New Brunswick, maybe he is of Irish decent or his parents immigrated from Ireland?