Not at all PC
Jul 30th 2007, 3:48 am
#31
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,023
Re: Not at all PC
Actually dbd I am hard-pressed to cite you any examples. But I hear this PC stuff all the time. Just look at TV, US or Canadian channels, it matters not. They love to over-use the words 'challenged' or 'impaired'.
Funny thing is some 30 years ago we used to watch 'Yes Minister' and 'Yes Prime Minister' on TV. Sir Humphrey, and to a lesser extent Bernard, just loved to put matters in a obscured or complicated light.
PC at its best.
This would infuriate Hacker who just wanted it said plainly with no sugar coating. It was a core theme of the series and it was done skillfully to make the audience laugh.
Nowadays though it is dead serious and no laughing matter.
Funny thing is some 30 years ago we used to watch 'Yes Minister' and 'Yes Prime Minister' on TV. Sir Humphrey, and to a lesser extent Bernard, just loved to put matters in a obscured or complicated light.
PC at its best.
This would infuriate Hacker who just wanted it said plainly with no sugar coating. It was a core theme of the series and it was done skillfully to make the audience laugh.
Nowadays though it is dead serious and no laughing matter.
The Toronto Star, www.thestar.com, is about as PC as papers get. I searched for "challenged" and "impaired". On the first page of hits there is only one that arguably uses challenged in the manner described and that's a silly piece in which the network NBC is described as "ratings challenged".
Jul 30th 2007, 3:51 am
#32
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,023
Re: Not at all PC
Over in the big league, www.guardian.co.uk, we can read that Penélope Cruz is eyelash challenged.
It seems to me that this usage indicates an awareness on the part of the author that this use of "challenged" is now trite, even camp.
It seems to me that this usage indicates an awareness on the part of the author that this use of "challenged" is now trite, even camp.
Jul 30th 2007, 4:05 am
#34
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,124
Re: Not at all PC
ratings challenged; eyelash challenged; my point exactly
So maybe Batty or Judy can answer this one: How would they describe a guy who is not exactly well hung? And that is putting it most politely. Would he be penis-challenged? yes or no?
So maybe Batty or Judy can answer this one: How would they describe a guy who is not exactly well hung? And that is putting it most politely. Would he be penis-challenged? yes or no?
Jul 30th 2007, 4:09 am
#36
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: Not at all PC
Originally Posted by montreal mike
So maybe Batty or Judy can answer this one: How would they describe a guy who is not exactly well hung? And that is putting it most politely. Would he be penis-challenged? yes or no?
Jul 30th 2007, 4:22 am
#37
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Posts: 4,234
Re: Not at all PC
Words are important. We see it here all the time when something is written, meant one way and taken to mean another.
I am miffed that I cant use the word deaf to describe myself. I struggle to find a word or phrase that describes my hearing loss.
The only one i get annoyed with is the Deaf and Dumb scenario. Words have power and to run the two words together is to link them in peoples minds.
I get more upset by actions. People who dont bother to include me in a conversation, or who turn away from me so i cant see what they are saying, who tell me what I am capable off doing when they havent a clue, accuse me of selective deafness.
A blind woman I know doesnt understand that I mustnt say I am deaf, as she says, she uses a white stick, she can see, and she is also blind.
Its important not to define people by their disability, to see the person not the disability. People do say " move for the wheelchair" no mention of the person. etc etc
Its a huge complex subject, as long as we try to help and not insult by speech or actions then we cant really do much more in everyday life. The overly zealous PC police antagonise and cause more harm than good
phew, rant over.
This homesickness lark makes me angry it seems
I am miffed that I cant use the word deaf to describe myself. I struggle to find a word or phrase that describes my hearing loss.
- Hard of hearing seems weak, and most people think that the volume is turned down a bit.
- Hearing impaired sounds like i need some wax clearing out.
- Deaf - well this is a whole cultural thing, see earlier posts, I briefly toyed with the idea of learning sign language and went to a class or two. The Deaf teachers, ie those that use sign language and are non verbal, were very annoyed at me for saying that I am partially deaf. They say I am a hearing person and so cannot use the D word to describe myself
- Partially deaf. I like this as it implies I cant hear somethings but can others
- Deafened, this is meant to describe someone who had hearing but who lost it.
The only one i get annoyed with is the Deaf and Dumb scenario. Words have power and to run the two words together is to link them in peoples minds.
I get more upset by actions. People who dont bother to include me in a conversation, or who turn away from me so i cant see what they are saying, who tell me what I am capable off doing when they havent a clue, accuse me of selective deafness.
A blind woman I know doesnt understand that I mustnt say I am deaf, as she says, she uses a white stick, she can see, and she is also blind.
Its important not to define people by their disability, to see the person not the disability. People do say " move for the wheelchair" no mention of the person. etc etc
Its a huge complex subject, as long as we try to help and not insult by speech or actions then we cant really do much more in everyday life. The overly zealous PC police antagonise and cause more harm than good
phew, rant over.
This homesickness lark makes me angry it seems
not a lover?
Jul 30th 2007, 4:30 am
#39
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,023
Re: Not at all PC
Hence "person with autism" instead of "autistic person". Which strikes me as being absurd. A disability as profound as autism really does define the person.
Jul 30th 2007, 4:41 am
#40
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,234
Re: Not at all PC
Not all PCness is rubbish though, you have to start somewhere and the problem is knowing when to stop.
Jul 30th 2007, 5:05 am
#41
Canadian Outlaw
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 323
Re: Not at all PC
I'll PM you the link if you'll keep it to yourself. I'm serious about me possibly losing my job. Oooo the tales I could tell...
Jul 30th 2007, 9:59 am
#42
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,124
Re: Not at all PC
Words are important. We see it here all the time when something is written, meant one way and taken to mean another.
I am miffed that I cant use the word deaf to describe myself. I struggle to find a word or phrase that describes my hearing loss.
The only one i get annoyed with is the Deaf and Dumb scenario. Words have power and to run the two words together is to link them in peoples minds.
I get more upset by actions. People who dont bother to include me in a conversation, or who turn away from me so i cant see what they are saying, who tell me what I am capable off doing when they havent a clue, accuse me of selective deafness.
A blind woman I know doesnt understand that I mustnt say I am deaf, as she says, she uses a white stick, she can see, and she is also blind.
Its important not to define people by their disability, to see the person not the disability. People do say " move for the wheelchair" no mention of the person. etc etc
Its a huge complex subject, as long as we try to help and not insult by speech or actions then we cant really do much more in everyday life. The overly zealous PC police antagonise and cause more harm than good
phew, rant over.
This homesickness lark makes me angry it seems
I am miffed that I cant use the word deaf to describe myself. I struggle to find a word or phrase that describes my hearing loss.
- Hard of hearing seems weak, and most people think that the volume is turned down a bit.
- Hearing impaired sounds like i need some wax clearing out.
- Deaf - well this is a whole cultural thing, see earlier posts, I briefly toyed with the idea of learning sign language and went to a class or two. The Deaf teachers, ie those that use sign language and are non verbal, were very annoyed at me for saying that I am partially deaf. They say I am a hearing person and so cannot use the D word to describe myself
- Partially deaf. I like this as it implies I cant hear somethings but can others
- Deafened, this is meant to describe someone who had hearing but who lost it.
The only one i get annoyed with is the Deaf and Dumb scenario. Words have power and to run the two words together is to link them in peoples minds.
I get more upset by actions. People who dont bother to include me in a conversation, or who turn away from me so i cant see what they are saying, who tell me what I am capable off doing when they havent a clue, accuse me of selective deafness.
A blind woman I know doesnt understand that I mustnt say I am deaf, as she says, she uses a white stick, she can see, and she is also blind.
Its important not to define people by their disability, to see the person not the disability. People do say " move for the wheelchair" no mention of the person. etc etc
Its a huge complex subject, as long as we try to help and not insult by speech or actions then we cant really do much more in everyday life. The overly zealous PC police antagonise and cause more harm than good
phew, rant over.
This homesickness lark makes me angry it seems
And I must agree with you here that the overzealous PC police cause more harm than good.
I aso suspect those PC types are mostly well intentioned but absolute zealots who try to put ones defects in the best possible light. Problem is that if I am a cripple or lame, blind, or dumb (and I don't mean stupid here) nothing will change even if I describe myself in the most euphemistic of phrases.
Jul 30th 2007, 10:05 am
#43
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: Not at all PC
Originally Posted by montreal mike
And I must agree with you here that the overzealous PC police cause more harm than good.
I aso suspect those PC types are mostly well intentioned but absolute zealots who try to put ones defects in the best possible light. Problem is that if I am a cripple or lame, blind, or dumb (and I don't mean stupid here) nothing will change even if I describe myself in the most euphemistic of phrases.
I aso suspect those PC types are mostly well intentioned but absolute zealots who try to put ones defects in the best possible light. Problem is that if I am a cripple or lame, blind, or dumb (and I don't mean stupid here) nothing will change even if I describe myself in the most euphemistic of phrases.
Jul 30th 2007, 11:14 am
#44
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 315
Re: Not at all PC
Definitely. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir%E...orf_hypothesis
for a good scientific dose of language psychology. HWP was definitely right in her (initial) argument.
Having said that, PC is nothing else than wooden language, "wooden language (calque of the French expression langue de bois) refers to a diverting of attention from reality by using certain words, such as banalities too abstract or pompous, either appealing to sentiment rather than to facts." (cf. Wikipedia or the dictionary of your choice).
PC is not dangerous; it may be boring, but not dangerous. Those who use PC to manipulate people, are. Politicians, managers... you know who they are.
for a good scientific dose of language psychology. HWP was definitely right in her (initial) argument.
Having said that, PC is nothing else than wooden language, "wooden language (calque of the French expression langue de bois) refers to a diverting of attention from reality by using certain words, such as banalities too abstract or pompous, either appealing to sentiment rather than to facts." (cf. Wikipedia or the dictionary of your choice).
PC is not dangerous; it may be boring, but not dangerous. Those who use PC to manipulate people, are. Politicians, managers... you know who they are.
Last edited by DaveTheCat; Jul 30th 2007 at 11:17 am.
Jul 30th 2007, 12:37 pm
#45
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,124
Re: Not at all PC
Batty .. This seems apropos
... deaf culture has always considered the label "Deaf" as an affirming statement of group membership and not insulting or disparaging in any way. The term now often substituted for the term "deaf", hearing-impaired, was developed to include people with hearing loss due to aging, accidents, and other causes. While more accurate for those uses, the term "hearing-impaired" is considered highly derogatory by many deaf people. The term "Hard of Hearing," however, is considered an acceptable descriptive term for a limited- to non-hearing person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness
... deaf culture has always considered the label "Deaf" as an affirming statement of group membership and not insulting or disparaging in any way. The term now often substituted for the term "deaf", hearing-impaired, was developed to include people with hearing loss due to aging, accidents, and other causes. While more accurate for those uses, the term "hearing-impaired" is considered highly derogatory by many deaf people. The term "Hard of Hearing," however, is considered an acceptable descriptive term for a limited- to non-hearing person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness
