magnumpi

It's like a building made for an Indian shantytown!! Not central London.

scrubbedexpat091

Are these items required in the UK? And if so was this building older so built to older standards?

magnumpi

The pics of this building are horrific !!

mrken30

This is not just about building codes, fire systems come under landlord/tenant legislation.

For example:
It is now recommended that fire extinguishers should not be used by untrained persons i.e. residents/tenants, therefore do not place them in common areas.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/fire-safety

In purpose built flats or maisonettes, built in accordance with modern building regulations, it is assumed that a fire will generally be confined to the dwelling. This is because there is a high degree of compartmentation and a low probability of fire spread beyond the dwelling of origin.

plasticcanuck

Your comments have some validity but, despite the widespread use of wood, I don't recall any fires on this scale in Canada in buildings accommodating people. Britain used up most of its trees in past times and for centuries mainly used wood in construction of homes, hence the Great Fire of London, etc. But in those
days contrilling/managing of fire outbreaks by authorities was really non-existent. I suspect the London building was poorly built and managed. I would like to think (probably Naïvely) that in first world countries at least, Fire Services would have a plan prepared for fighting fires on each high rose building within its jurisdiction. Accusations will soon be flying in this situation.

dave_j

When this building was first designed, there would have been a few design engineers whose job it would have been to ensure stability in the case of a fire to allow tenants time to escape.
I hope they're still alive because they're to be congratulated. This must have been a worst possible scenario and the building still stands.
The enquiry will determine the cause and reasons for the disaster, but preventing the building from collapsing will make their task possible.

Pulaski

On the other hand, I believe the blame will fall primarily on the engineer/designer who specified the cladding, and possibly other materials, to be retrofitted onto a 43 year old concrete tower. Even at this stage it is clear that the product wasn't suitable for the use it was put to.

Even if there was an entirely separate reason for the fire to start, unconnected to the design and installation of the replacement cladding, the building was a ticking time-bomb, just waiting for the right circumstances to start an inferno.

mrken30

I could imagine someone feels really guilty and responsible for the loss of life.

dave_j

I agree, but my comments were addressed to those whose task it was to design the original structure and even though it was subjected to the most intense test it still stands.

Pulaski

I understand, and agree wholeheartedly - they should be proud. .... The retrofitters, not so much!

Partially discharged

Was that just the new floor you added or all floors?. There is some magical distance that once you are within of the property line (not the distance to the house next door) you have to protect your home from having a fire jump from one house to the other. I think there is also an option of heat sensitive blinds that drop down in a fire and prevent a fire escaping via a window.

The Building Department at most local authorities are the ones who catch this after you've gone through Planning Department processes that tie you in to a design and things are rather late in the process.

dbd33

Just the new floor. The ground floor has brick and plaster walls which met code as of the construction date, 1860. On one end the wall defined the property line but the next house was a good way, perhaps 20' off. On the other it was, perhaps, three feet from the next house, 18" or so from the property line.

Shakyuk

Weirdly it was two years on the same day that my friend's 4 floor apartment burned down. The building was pretty big, a BBQ fire started at one end of the apartment block and ripped through the entire block. It took less than an hour for the fire to have spread from one end of the building to the other, I'd estimate about 150 m long building. Clearly the fires doors didn't work very well! The top two floors were completely destroyed (including my friends apartment) and the bottom two floors were fire damaged.
They have since rebuilt the block, exactly as before. It's crazy how little protection some buildings provide.

Shard

I suppose it was some systemic failure rather than that of an individual engineer. Risks would have been quantified and highlighted, but along the way various teams would have taken the view that those risks were not significant enough to warrant extra investment. That will change now.

scot47

London looks increasingly like a city in the Third World.