Iron Lady
Jan 16th 2012, 3:39 am
#61
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,872
Re: Iron Lady
Just pointing out that people who voluntarily join Armies might have to fight and if it is against their beliefs then dont ****ing join one, and then complain but I dont want to fight or go there.
Jan 16th 2012, 3:41 am
#62
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Jan 16th 2012, 3:45 am
#63
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,872
Re: Iron Lady
Enjoy the Sarkozy politics in your new abode
Jan 16th 2012, 3:53 am
#64
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: Iron Lady
The thing about the Falklands war was it could have been completely avoided had the government not decided to withdraw the last South Atlantic survey/ supply ship. That decision was against the better judgment of the foreign office, military advisors, The US government and the people at the embassy in Buenos Aires. There are diplomatic cables in the public domain that spell this out very clearly.
Once that happened it was virtually inevitable that the Argentinians would take steps to reclaim the Malvinas, so in that respect I am a firm believer that the war was indeed "manufactured" in order to boost Thatchers prestige at home and to divert attention from the state of the economy and labour unrest.
Ive mixed feelings about her. She did what was necessary to reset the balance between labour and business, and she modernised the way britain worked, but after a while she seemed to stop listening to others and started to do things purely for idealogical reasons it appeared, regardless of the consequences on the most vulnerable in society. I wasnt sad to see her go.
Once that happened it was virtually inevitable that the Argentinians would take steps to reclaim the Malvinas, so in that respect I am a firm believer that the war was indeed "manufactured" in order to boost Thatchers prestige at home and to divert attention from the state of the economy and labour unrest.
Ive mixed feelings about her. She did what was necessary to reset the balance between labour and business, and she modernised the way britain worked, but after a while she seemed to stop listening to others and started to do things purely for idealogical reasons it appeared, regardless of the consequences on the most vulnerable in society. I wasnt sad to see her go.
All the stuff about the Belgrano is a load of nonsense. It was a legitimate target - the direction it was travelling and position wrt the exclusion zone are irrelevant. Argentina doesn't dispute that the sinking was entirely "legal" but the Thatcher haters will always hold it against her - it seems sometimes that they would rather that the Belgrano had sucessfully intercepted the task force and sunk the troop ship.
I agree with your last paragraph.
Jan 16th 2012, 3:54 am
#65
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: Iron Lady
Jan 16th 2012, 3:55 am
#66
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Iron Lady
Politicians make decisions against the judgement of advisers all the time - it doesn't necessarily make the case there was some sort of conspiracy to engineer a war. I think it was just a case of giving little thought to somewhere put of the way that didn't seem very important giving Argentina the opportunity to invade.
Jan 16th 2012, 3:58 am
#67
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,340
Re: Iron Lady
So the cables explicitly state the goal of prompting a Argentine invasion? I'd be interested to read up if you have the links?
Jan 16th 2012, 4:06 am
#68
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Iron Lady
Its not an entirely new idea. A similar thing happening regarding Pearl Harbour, the US had decoded the Japanese naval codes, and chose to let the attack happen for political reasons. Surely more than coincidence that the US pacific carrier fleet were away at the time? Anyway I digress, and its certainly arguable that at that time, the battleship was seen as King.
Last edited by iaink; Jan 16th 2012 at 4:09 am.
Jan 16th 2012, 4:06 am
#69
Part Time Poster
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 4,219
Re: Iron Lady
Ive mixed feelings about her. She did what was necessary to reset the balance between labour and business, and she modernised the way britain worked, but after a while she seemed to stop listening to others and started to do things purely for idealogical reasons it appeared, regardless of the consequences on the most vulnerable in society. I wasnt sad to see her go.
I’d also suggest that not only were the targets too broad, but the wrong methods used too, all too frequently the news was showing our police in full riot gear facing the public, only during the Thatcher years did green ambulances or fire engines seem normal.
Add into this I believe it was the Thatcher, and Regan administrations that relaxed the banking rules that allowed the Toxic mortgage fiasco to come into being..
I believe she will go down in history as the Iron lady that had a Job to do, one that went ahead and did it as the lady wasn’t for turning, and as a result will be remembered for doing it and doing it the wrong way..
Jan 16th 2012, 4:11 am
#70
Slightly Canadian
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 10,129
Re: Iron Lady
Cant help, sorry. Its some half remembered "Everyman" doc or something that laid out the case for the prosecution.
Its not an entirely new idea. A similar thing happening regarding Pearl Harbour, the US had decoded the Japanese naval codes, and chose to let the attack happen for political reasons. Surely more than coincidence that the US pacific carrier fleet were away at the time? Anyway I digress, and its certainly arguable that at that time, the battleship was seen as King.
Its not an entirely new idea. A similar thing happening regarding Pearl Harbour, the US had decoded the Japanese naval codes, and chose to let the attack happen for political reasons. Surely more than coincidence that the US pacific carrier fleet were away at the time? Anyway I digress, and its certainly arguable that at that time, the battleship was seen as King.
Jan 16th 2012, 4:12 am
#71
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Formally Scotland. Now Bay of Quinte...Ontario
Posts: 2,466
Re: Iron Lady
Are you drawing a parallel between Thatcher's invasion of the Falklands and Harper's dabbling in the Middle East? I think that's a bit strong. Were it not for his religiosity and his BMI, I'd think Harper clearly less loathsome than Thatcher. He's a nasty piece of work but, AFAIK, he hasn't killed anyone he knew to be running away.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html
Most revealing as to the Junta's actual intentions.....and gives credence to the decision to treat the Belgrano as a legitimate target. Seems the Iron Lady' got it right yet again....
Doubt Tam Dalyell and Co will be putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong....again!
Jan 16th 2012, 4:16 am
#72
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Jan 16th 2012, 4:16 am
#73
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,022
Re: Iron Lady
With regards to you last sentence as above, making reference to the sinking of the ;Blegrano' I assume?. If so, may I respectfully (or not) draw your attention to the following link?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html
Most revealing as to the Junta's actual intentions.....and gives credence to the decision to treat the Belgrano as a legitimate target. Seems the Iron Lady' got it right yet again....
Doubt Tam Dalyell and Co will be putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong....again!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html
Most revealing as to the Junta's actual intentions.....and gives credence to the decision to treat the Belgrano as a legitimate target. Seems the Iron Lady' got it right yet again....
Doubt Tam Dalyell and Co will be putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong....again!
Jan 16th 2012, 4:17 am
#74
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Iron Lady
With regards to you last sentence as above, making reference to the sinking of the ;Blegrano' I assume?. If so, may I respectfully (or not) draw your attention to the following link?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html
Most revealing as to the Junta's actual intentions.....and gives credence to the decision to treat the Belgrano as a legitimate target. Seems the Iron Lady' got it right yet again....
Doubt Tam Dalyell and Co will be putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong....again!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html
Most revealing as to the Junta's actual intentions.....and gives credence to the decision to treat the Belgrano as a legitimate target. Seems the Iron Lady' got it right yet again....
Doubt Tam Dalyell and Co will be putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong....again!
Jan 16th 2012, 4:19 am
#75
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,378
Re: Iron Lady
