well, yes, I was agreeing with you in #8, but pointing that out would have detracted from my ability to gloat

...and you really didn't think that I was going to let you steal my sunshine did you?

oops. Busy day here, dealing with airfreight companies and selling stuff as we are getting scary close.. Sorry

I hope our plane won't be on a treadmill!

Why? Wont make any difference, and will answer this stupid thread for once and for all

I for one hope it is.

You're the one who started this whole mess and you would then have the opportunity to give us the definitive answer.

Actually it would be kinda cool, eh?

Doubt my wife would be so happy about it though lol.

Of course not [bows to greater wisdom].

But hey, you did do aeroplane-related stuff for a living, didn't you? Surely that gives you an unfair advantage so you should be disqualified and everybody else moved up three places in the finishing order for the last race of the season... oh wait, no, that's motor racing, their wheels are driven rather than free-rotating

No.
As stated by Iain, lift is created by an air pressure differential (bernoullis principle).
i.e.
The faster a gas moves, the lower it's pressure will be. So, because (in most cases) the upper surface of the wing is longer than the lower surface, the air moving over the wing has to move faster than the air moving under the wing. In doing this, there is a lower pressure produced above the wing compared to below it, so the plane is sucked into the air. The length of the upper surface of the wing can be increased by either extending the wings length (flaps) or by increasing the 'angle of attack', i.e. the angle at which the airfoil is presented to the relative air movement.
It's also known as a venturi effect, which is how a carburettor works on a car.

The aircraft would take off. Engines produce thrust, which pushes against the air, which gives it forward motion. This produces lift from the wings, we leave the ground. Give or take, the t/o speed for a 747@ MTOW is V1 145-148kts (V1 is the go or no-go decision speed) and VR 155-160kts (VR is the rotation speed ie lift-off speed) The airspeed is what is relevant, not the ground speed. The only speedometer in an a/c measures airspeed, which is coincidentally the same as ground speed when taking off. Unless of course you have a belt running underneath you, which then buggers everything up.

The belt is irrelevant, other than:

1. It would determine the speed the wheels rotate on the ground. Therefore the wheels would be going very fast and the tires might go bang.

2. Unless the belt accelerates at the same rate as thrust is produced, the aircraft would take off backwards, in an uncontrolled flight configuration. Could well end up back in the hanger upside down. PAX very unhappy! Paint scratched, a/c owners not happy.

Well yeah sort of...he says scuffing his toe slowly in circles.

But I'm not a pilot.

I always maintained that if there is a greater being and he/she had meant man to fly, then he/she would would have given man wings. But if man was going to be stupid enough to attempt flight anyway then I was perfectly happy to sit up in a tower cab and direct things.

You're a braver man than me steve.
I've sat in a tower and watched the ATC guys when I was learning to fly and I'd much rather do the flying. Those guys seem to know where everything is in the curcuit without looking out the window. Beyond me.

It takes off. The engines are not driving the wheels so the conveyor belt makes no difference. The thrust against the air is all that counts.

Ian your question - “Does a belt sander generate a significant amount airflow? Not in my experience”……..Well does your experience go to one that is about 40 feet wide?? that must generate a bit of a wind eh?

The rocket is standing on the ground, when ignited it starts to roll forward but the treadmill starts to roll back so how can it move forward if, as per the original plan, the treadmill matches the forward motion.

The wheels connect the rocket/plane together, the rim of the tire touching the treadmill and the wheel axle connected to the rocket/ plane. So if the rocket/plane and treadmill are going in equal and opposite directions and are ‘connected’ via the wheel how can there be any resultant directional motion of the wheel – and therefore the rocket/plane.

Let's try this one more time, Mike. Imagine we are sitting across a table from each other. There is a treadmill on the table. You have the controls to the treadmill. You can start it, stop it, run it in either direction (toward or away from you) at any speed you want. I have a toy airplane, with wheels that spin freely. I place the toy on the treadmill in front of me; the wheels are resting on the belt. Holding the toy in my hand, I begin pushing it toward you at 1 inch per second. This means that the toy's wheels are rotating at one inch per second. What do you do with the treadmill controls to prevent me from pushing the toy all the way across the table to you? How do you cancel out the force of my hand pushing the plane?

That's easy, put a beer or something on the treadmill table. The beer gets pulled by the treadmill towards you and falls in your lap, you let go of the plane as you now have beer all over you, ergo, vis a vis plane is stopped!!

Oh yeah - the beer is probably a Pilsner, just so we aren't wasting good beer here