sans

Seanyg Dont take Kates response the wrong way, i know what your thinking........Thats not how its meant.

Elaine B.

I'm pretty sure Kate quoted the wrong post.

sans

seanyg

Yeah I thought (hoped) that was the case as I don't think anyone would dare laugh about this case.

I think there were 3 people arrested in connection with baby P's murder weren't there? Presumably one's the mother and then there are 2 blokes - I think one's called Jason Owen, he was shown walking down the street on tv yesterday (they showed his face, and they put a pic of him in the paper).

Just been watching News 24 and I'm sure I saw something flash up on the screen saying words to the effect of "2 men cleared of murder or manslaughter of Baby P".

Surely not??

nikki dreaming

here is sky news link

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...th_In_Haringey

It confirms that the 2 men were convicted of causing or allowing the death of baby p, they were cleared of murder.

The mother had previously admitted guilt of causing or allowing death of baby p.

How this is quite any different to a murder charge I don't know

p.s the pictures of the lodger, I think are taken from a previous hearing or from a while ago , I don't believe they have just been taken. They were all convicted on Tuesday I think.

Arris

And now this sad news - poor little souls

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/7726077.stm

sans

I have just been listening to this on the news........ It sounds like the mother will be sectioned . What gorgeous kids............

fledermaus

No, read my post. I was responding to previous posts that said they should be prosecuted.

Nor do I think that "they" should be sacked without an enquiry. I think I read that the social worker wasn't very experienced, so managers have a responsibility to make sure that staff are competent to do the tasks they are allocated. The day before the child died the CPS said there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute. Who do you think was gathering that evidence?

Nothing happens in a vacuum, you can't just point the finger and say "they" are terrible.

Not so long ago posters on this forum were saying you shouldn't get involved if you see a child being slapped. Do they still feel the same?

livermanl

My wife works for CFS here in winnipeg and she has come across kids which have been seriously abused.

Her job is a simple one she works in a temporary home which sees around 5 kids at a time and they have to basically be mother/father/nurse/babysitter without getting attached to the children!!!

The reason is the kids are basically in 'transit' the social workers take the kids away and put them in a shelter and then try to get the kids back to those same people as quickly as possible the reason...it's there job to 'process' kids rather than do the right thing.

You can have all the best intentions in the world to do the right thing but if the system basically says we got to get this done quickly or you loose your job then you will have a high turnover rate but you will also get the people who need the job and need the money and after a time they run out of fight.

it's not nice to say but instead of sending social workers to jail or punishing them maybe...the courts should look into the government policy and targets themselves...find the real people that are responsible for the system being about figures and not about childrens safety and punish the guy with the whip.

That's all social workers seem to be to me is people who get whipped and told 'faster'.

I could be wrong but i just can't see anyone trying to get a degree as a social worker only to not care about the kids afterward...surely these people did the degreee so that they could make a difference?

Flogger

No accountability required then.

Flogger

Not quite the same,is it?

dbd33

Tricky. A parent is unlikely to beat a child to death in a shop but a slap delivered in public suggests a tendency to violence.

Eve N

You know guys as much as all these stories are horrific you can always find worse.
We are appalled that this kind of thing can happen in our country but look else where in the world where they dont have systems in place to protect children and where maybe human life is less precious.It would be even more tragic to suffer there where the people around you saw these crimes as being 'normal or just common, something you just have to get on with.

Our outrage is good,it will make these events not OK.Hopefully get our protection system working better but at least it is there and we are talking about it.Just spare a thought for all those children in Asia,Africa,Europe.... who dont have people to cry for them.

God bless their little souls.

Eve

seanyg

I think there's a big difference between abuse and discipline. When we were young my dad would slap our legs / bum if we were really naughty and we've both grown up fine (it taught us the right lesson and we never did the same thing twice, but neither did it make us live in fear of our parents), and no it hasn't taught us to be violent like some may suggest, and I wouldn't say never to disciplining our children the same way when they are older.

fledermaus

Of course there's accountability. It just isnt a mindless knee jerk reaction of sack em all, lock em up and throw away the key.

How do you know its not the same? Are you an expert? This child was eating soil, what would you do if you saw that? He was said to smile a lot, so he looked happy enough? It's not simple at all.

At one child protection training we had they said that Victoria Climbie's suffering was reported by a taxi driver who was concerned. What if he had decided that a slap wasn't quite the same.

As long as we condone any violence towards children then the option is always there to stick your head in the sand and decide its only a slap.