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Old Apr 11th 2008 | 7:32 am
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by roanin
Well put Mark. The whole market at this time, is a load of bollocks to say the least. I own and operate a small roofing and reno's company, and I have ditch-digging grunts coming to me for work, and they want $20:00 an hour! not from this boy, I'll do it myself first! Hence I have turned to the US labour pool for my journeymen, and bringing them in on the PNP. My customers wont pay ridiculously high prices, so how the hell can I warrant $20:00 an hour to a numbskull? Sooner or later though, the public are going to have to realize that real estate values etc, transfer into higher building and maintenance costs.
So do it yourself then. If you'd sooner do that than pay decent wages then good luck to you! Where do you expect the "numbskulls" who work for you to live - if prices are going up and they end up with bigger mortgages (or higher rent) then they're going to want more money aren't they? Or are you proposing some sort of class system whereby only the elite benefit from rising house prices and everyone else has to suffer?
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 7:44 am
  #17  
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by NSpaul
So do it yourself then. If you'd sooner do that than pay decent wages then good luck to you! Where do you expect the "numbskulls" who work for you to live - if prices are going up and they end up with bigger mortgages (or higher rent) then they're going to want more money aren't they? Or are you proposing some sort of class system whereby only the elite benefit from rising house prices and everyone else has to suffer?
Anyone with an ounce of business acumen would know that, in this part of the world, you dont pay a labourer $20:00 an hour, plain and simple! If we all subscribed to that kind of stupidity, we would be tits up before you new it. As for your inference that I like to pay low wages, I am on record as paying wages similar to that in Calgary for my tradesmen. If a man wants to rise above the labour category, he needs to get some skills/education. If we were to pay people simply what they ask for, Tim Hortons would be paying coffee pourers $15:00 per hour like some of the other cities in the west.
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 7:47 am
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by roanin
Anyone with an ounce of business acumen would know that, in this part of the world, you dont pay a labourer $20:00 an hour, plain and simple! If we all subscribed to that kind of stupidity, we would be tits up before you new it. As for your inference that I like to pay low wages, I am on record as paying wages similar to that in Calgary for my tradesmen. If a man wants to rise above the labour category, he needs to get some skills/education. If we were to pay people simply what they ask for, Tim Hortons would be paying coffee pourers $15:00 per hour like some of the other cities in the west.
maybe it's a case of "didn't" when the costs of living were lower......times change....
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 8:01 am
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by roanin
Anyone with an ounce of business acumen would know that, in this part of the world, you dont pay a labourer $20:00 an hour, plain and simple! If we all subscribed to that kind of stupidity, we would be tits up before you new it. As for your inference that I like to pay low wages, I am on record as paying wages similar to that in Calgary for my tradesmen. If a man wants to rise above the labour category, he needs to get some skills/education. If we were to pay people simply what they ask for, Tim Hortons would be paying coffee pourers $15:00 per hour like some of the other cities in the west.
No, actually someone with business acumen would know that if everyone is asking for $20 an hour (lets remember that that's only GBP20k per year!) then that has become the "going rate". And if you are paying less than the going rate then you are paying "low wages", plain and simple!

It has nothing to do with level of skills/education - its a market forces thing (but I guess with all your business acumen you probably already knew that).
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 8:22 am
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by NSpaul
No, actually someone with business acumen would know that if everyone is asking for $20 an hour (lets remember that that's only GBP20k per year!) then that has become the "going rate". And if you are paying less than the going rate then you are paying "low wages", plain and simple!

It has nothing to do with level of skills/education - its a market forces thing (but I guess with all your business acumen you probably already knew that).
Although I have not started the work process in Saskatchewan so have no personal experience, I do know that wages are not high in this province. An aquaintance told me this week that she works for the Government in an office and is only on $19 an hour and has been working there for many years.
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 11:49 am
  #21  
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Default Re: House prices

Its true. A laborer in Regina does not expect to start at 20$/hour. However for living in the jaw shouldn't there be some sort of compensation?
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 12:07 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by NSpaul
No, actually someone with business acumen would know that if everyone is asking for $20 an hour (lets remember that that's only GBP20k per year!) then that has become the "going rate". And if you are paying less than the going rate then you are paying "low wages", plain and simple!

It has nothing to do with level of skills/education - its a market forces thing (but I guess with all your business acumen you probably already knew that).
Looks like I am being baited into a union-v-management argument here, and that I refuse to do. Anyway, I don't like to duel with someone who's ill equipped to defend himself. Argument dismissed!
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 12:08 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by gingnut
Its true. A laborer in Regina does not expect to start at 20$/hour. However for living in the jaw shouldn't there be some sort of compensation?
Mmmm, don't remember the last time there was a stabbing here.
 
Old Apr 11th 2008 | 12:27 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by roanin
There is nothing stopping a "board" from arriving at a consensus that all advisories on values should be increased by a certain percentage every month. .

I'd like to think we had that sort of Power, Real Estate Boards are not controlled by the Realtors, they are controlled by the permanent staff. You should hear committee members complain about their inability to effect change due to permanent staff member being against it. I think anyone who has been involved with that type of organization no mater which trade or profession will agree with me. In most City's there are 1000's of Realtors, you couldn't get them all to agree which day it is.

The value of a house is arrived at by comparing it with those that sold recently, that are similar. Naturally when house prices are rising the valuations will rise.

All Realtors should be happy to show you the comparibles that were used to get to the price. If not find one who will. I run a "CMA" (comparative market analysis) for my Buyer clients that so that they can see exactly what similar properties have sold for recently and make-up their own mind what to bid.

The trouble is after several weeks/months of looking for houses, putting in many offers that they have lost out on, people begin to get desperate, and finally its the person with the deepest pocket that wins the house, and actual value be damned. This is what is forcing up prices here in Winnipeg.

Its classic supply and demand.


Everyone thinks a market like this is good for Realtors, well its only good for those with the listing, for everyone else who is working with Buyers, its a pain in the rear. In a stable market you can show a client a few house, they pick one, you put an offer in, theres a bit of negotiation and thats it, done. NOT in this market though, we are showing multiple homes, writing offers that are rejected due to the intense competition, on and on and on it goes. It costs us way more now with a buyer than in a normal market, a hundred or so extra in commision due to house price rises no way makes up for all the extra work.

So I like many Realtors say "Let the Madness End".
 
Old Apr 22nd 2008 | 3:19 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by iaink
Much as I appreciate the work done by Realtors, I'm a little cynical about the nature of property valuation. Ive often wondered exactly how it works.

Most home owners putting their house on the market will get a few realtors to offer values before deciding on a selling agent. I think its only naturally that they want to get "top dollar", so surely there is a temptation for realtors to slightly over state the market value in an attempt to woo the seller to give the commission based sales opportunity to them.

If a realtor were to offer an honest, unpadded value, surely they run the risk of not getting the business.

Most sellers seem to accept the idea that there is bound to be some haggling over the price to seal the deal, so which is the more likely to be selected to sell the property in the following scenario:
  • Realtor A valuing a property realistically as worth 300k, telling the seller its worth 320k and then selling at $300 after negotiation
  • Realtor B valuing it at 300k and telling the seller its worth 300k and selling it for the asking price.

Personally I cant see realtor B having any chance of getting the business...sellers want to hear their property has gained in value, even if it hasn't gained as much as they are told...

Naturally over time people look at the list prices of similar properties to determine the likely value of their house and see all these similar houses to theirs on the market for 320k...so their house must be worth that right? So any realtor who comes in and says its worth 340k stands more chance of landing the commission than a realtor who values it correctly at 300....

Ultimately the market determines the value someone will pay for it, but the general public dont get to see behind the velvet curtain to see which realtors offer accurate first time appraisals and sell at the list price, and which sales go through well below the sticker price on the listing.
A house is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it.
 
Old Apr 22nd 2008 | 4:20 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by wife of brit
A house is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it.
No, it's worth what a bank is willing to lend for it.

If you don't believe me, imagine what houses would cost if there were no mortgages; how many people could raise $300,000 in cash to buy an average house?
 
Old Apr 23rd 2008 | 12:56 am
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by wife of brit
A house is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it.
You totally missed the point.
 
Old Apr 23rd 2008 | 4:06 am
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Default Re: House prices

Originally Posted by lizwil98
According to an article in the Globe and Mail today, Canada's housing market is one of the safest in the world to invest in. Apparently the worst is Ireland, the Netherlands and then the UK.

If you want to read the whole article go here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...?query=ireland
considering hte prices in ireland, i'm not surprised.

Now Holland, now that surprised me.
 

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