Jericho79

Not at all, but I keep hearing about "Canadian values" as if Canada is the last bastion of freedom and democracy. Let's not forget that Canada's treatment of it's native people (ie. real canadians, not european settlers) was and continues to be a disgrace.

As in most Western countries, women continue to suffer wage disparity, are under represented in the c-suite, discriminated against in the workplace, etc, etc. There's little point in me going on, as it's clear.
My point is that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It's great that Harper wants to deal with this, but the clothes that a minority of women chose to wear, in a religion which is a significant minority in this country, should be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list of priorities.

BristolUK

Chelsea's captain?

Shard

It is way down the list.

The residual gender inequalities in Western culture pale in comparison to those in Islamic countries, so to cite glass houses is quite a twisting of facts. Covering up is a form of gender repression, I fail to understand why you condone it?

The reason the issue has gained attention, despite the very few individuals it affects, is that sanctioning the woman's request sets a precedent which counters hard won Canadian and Western principles of gender equality. Harper is completely right when he characterises it as anti-woman.

Oink

I think its all a bit of a cover up.

Jericho79

How do you rationalise arguing against gender repression whilst telling women what they're not allowed to wear?

plasticcanuck

So who on here has had a face to Niqab conversation? I have with women in hijabs but not in niqabs. If you have, what thoughts, if any, did you have in not seeing the face of the person facing you? These are generally seriously fundamental Muslims. I have encountered hijab covered women in stores/offices/doctors but not the fully veiled women.

Jericho79

I havent seen this yet, but it probably provides some actual insight:

Shard

It's not a purely theoretical argument. You have to consider why it is these women feel the need to veil themselves in such a way (hint: it's not the cold, and it's not sandstorms). Why do you think it is?

It's also not a question of dictating a woman's wardrobe, it's a case of one particular item which has no purpose in modern Western society.

orly

You're calling a scarred face a disability. I disagree.

Jericho79

They wear it for the same reason muslim men grow beards, why orthodox jewish women wear wigs and cover up in black/grey clothing, why amish women dress the way they do, etc- it's cultural and religious.

How do you define a modern western society? Because the countries which have laws insisting you dress a certain way include ISIL, saudi arabia, north korea, etc. Truly modern societies do not fall within this list.

magnumpi

I don't think they allow you to do the oath with a gob full of kebab and chilli sauce? So it's a mute point

dbd33

A gob full of kebab might make one mute but the point would still be moot, ffs.

In Toronto, I see people (people I assume to be women, Islamic transvestism isn't something I've much considered) in burqas all the time. I expect I'll see one tomorrow. I can't say I converse with them because they're just people on the tram, I expect if I had to speak to one it'd be pretty much like speaking to anyone else, I wouldn't expect hood wearing to interfere with dealing with, say, my request for a pint of whelks. How would you think a routine conversation with a woman in a veil would be different than one with any other woman?

magnumpi

So going back to the YT video, one of the questions was why don't muslim men cover their faces too ?

BristolUK

Not really a conversation nor routine....

In 1997 I took part in a sponsored bike ride alongside the Nile. (this is not me obviously, just an example of what the women on the ride wore - same as the men)

The women cyclists were verbally abused and attacked with sticks and stones by Hijab/Burqa wearing women.

That was quite a different interaction with all the other women encountered.

Novocastrian

Why don't you wear a skirt? (Perhaps you do).