iaink

Thats the church though, not the religion. Churches exist to exert power to some extent. But take gay marriage, not every catholic would say its a bad thing. But as a church its something those in power have decided to make a stand on.

The Anglican church is based in the same christian Bible (more or less), with the same "prophet", but the end result is a different view on Gay marriage.

Lady Locket

You know, this whole thing is a media frenzy blown out of all proportion. The site for the new mosque, to replace a temporary one in the area, is NOT ON GROUND ZERO - it is actually two blocks away. There is a heck of a lot of buildings, (commercial, residential, political and several Starbucks), in between the Ground Zero and this new Mosque. It is also not a traditional mosque, but more of an education and study centre - something I think people need.

Let them go through a standard planning application, allow the public 30 days to raise complaints on the structure, and let them get on with it. If they receive enough valid complaints from the public, the application will be denied or altered anyway. The fact is, this negative media attention has caused a situation where the uninformed masses affect the freedoms of a community they have no part in. As for the political angle on this, it is now a lose lose situation. I can't help but think that if no one had poked the wasps nest to start with (by mentioning 9/11 and linking all peoples of one faith with a couple of extremist mass murderers), then no one would be getting stung now.

What have we learnt folks? Never trust the media - verify the facts for yourself!

dbd33

The extent to which a religion is independent of its organizational structure is too obscure an argument for me.

iaink

I disagree, I hope that the majority of americans are not so bigoted that they associate all muslims with terrorists. If the mosque was there to serve the personal needs of the local muslim population, in association with their freedom of religion, then I dont think there would be all this fuss.

If it looks like its outside influences are out to make a political point, without any care for the local sensibilities of the area, then its not a suprise to me if there is something of an outcry against it, so I think that its important to establish what is driving this project along.

Moderate US politicians have a tight rope to walk on this one, on one hand they need to defend the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression, but that also have a lot of Christian voters to reassure too. Those on the right have it relatively easy in this case, they can just scream in outrage, genuine or otherwise.

LOL, If the average american realised how much of the country was owned by middle eastern and chinese interests they would no doubt be shocked. Its not a trend I see ending any time soon either.

iaink

Thats presumably because you arent a church goer. Everyone has their own view on the various aspects of their faith, and their own interpretation.

The church is just an umbrella organisation, it cant possibly accurately represent the views of all those under its mantle at the same time.

People of faith are not necessarily mindless sheep who unquestioningly follow all that the church leaders have to say. Not in private anyway.

Oakvillian

That was a point made by Hitchens in the article I linked above.


For "irrational and bigoted" read "emotional" and there you have the basis for almost every objection to this mosque, madrassar, whatever it is.

To give another example: many moderate muslims were as annoyed by the ludicrous over-reaction to the Danish cartoon thing as many non-muslim western free-speech proponents. But some of the same Westerners are now up in arms because the boot is on the other foot, if you'll excuse the mangling of limbs and metaphors. You can't have it both ways.

Objecting to the mosque because it's somehow deemed to be offensive to the memory of the victims of 9/11 is bollocks. It's religious intolerance and bigotry dressed up as hand-on-heart, God-bless-America nationalism, and it's ugly.

DaveLovesDee

I read an article a few years ago that said around 70% of New York's skyscrapers are either Saudi, Middle East or Chinese-owned.

ireland2canada

I think there is a balance to be found between allowing everyone their freedom of expression, and keeping the peace. Why can't people just deploy some common sense? There's no need for everything to get so political..."Oh but it says in the constitution that I can do it". If anyone, anywhere, ever works out how to do that, then I know some folks who would be delighted.

dbd33

It used to be a point of pride to the Star that Olympia & York was Manhatten's biggest landlord. Just one lot of foreigners displacing another.

Alan2005

It's all psychological. You yell muslim, everybody says, "Huh? What?" You yell terrorist, we've got a panic on our hands on the Fourth of July.

Jingsamichty

Does this mosque have Saudi funding?

OK, I say let them build it there as long as they allow a big synagogue to be built in Riyadh. Seeing as it's about tolerance, and all that.


For all those that go on about 'moderate' Muslims, there's no such thing. Just like there's no such thing as a moderate Christian. They're ALL f***ing loopy, believing in a supernatural being who tells you how you live your life, and how people who don't believe in the same things as you are damned??!!!

Just because some of them are a bit extreme doesn't make the rest of them 'sensible'.

iaink

You have a seriously screwed up view of how religion affects people.

Alan2005

Yes they are all mad, though most of them do manage to be functioning members of society despite being mentally ill.

DaveLovesDee

People told Christopher Columbus he was crazy to think the world is round.

Jingsamichty

No Iain.

Someone who believes that other people will go to Hell or suffer eternal damnation, or that their God is better than another person's God - they have a seriously screwed up view, caused by their religion.