Grammar schools
 

Back on the island, our wolf in sheeps clothing new PM seems keen on re-introducing grammar schools. Really not sure what to think about that, as obviously they lead to social division, but on the other hand they are far more academic than most of the comps?

Re: Grammar schools
 

Why is that?

Re: Grammar schools
 

Er, the exact opposite is true - a grammar school allows children to achieve their academic potential irrespective of their parents' ability to pay, which is good for the children, and good for the country. Comprehensive education was a socialist experiment in social engineering on the patently false assumption that all children have equal potential. It is a great pity IMO, that despite disarming the unions, Mrs Thatcher never got around to rolling back that particular socialist programme. :(

The US's "no child left behind" program is equally absurd, and IMO all children should be given equal opportunities, but prescribing universal education in a foreign language and sciences, among other things, when some children struggle with basic reading and arithmetic, is daft for several reasons.

Re: Grammar schools
 

I think grammar schools are a bit irrelevant these days when tuition is nearly 10,000 pounds a year. The purpose of grammar schools, because HE was effectively free at the point of delivery and therefore rationed, was to put middle class pupils on an early university track while limiting HE opportunities of working class children. Now if people want to give their children some competitive advantage they just buy a house in a good catchment area or send their children to "independent" schools.

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Where did that notion come from, when access to the local grammar school was based on perceived academic ability? :confused:

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At 11 years old? So you don't think social and economic conditions would have an impact on the academic achievement of small child?

Re: Grammar schools
 

Not much. The 11-plus is essentially a test of logic and cognitive ability. Up to that age most academic learning is done at school, so the impact of homework, and the time and suitable space to do it, is relatively low.

My daughter was subject to TWO sessions of academic assessment of her cognitive ability and social skills, totaling about two hours, including an hour-long session with a certified child psychologist, and the rest by an admittance specialists at the school, before she was offered a place ...... in kindergarten! :blink:

Re: Grammar schools
 

I don't know? A focus on learning rather than exploring. Higher expectations? Brighter cohorts? More engaged parents (although ironically, that's a table that has been turned).

Re: Grammar schools
 

I count myself fortunate to have passed the 11+ and subsequently attended the local county grammar school. It raised the expectations of a boy from a poor family to become the first in his extended family to attend a university.

It proved to be divisive however. Early on my friends would call of an evening to play. But, with at least 90 minutes homework every weekday evening and at least 2 hours of a weekend, this meant that evening play was out of the question. Friends stopped calling and I became something of an outsider.

Discipline was strict, education was intensive and competition encouraged with, as I recall, monthly exams, intermediate tests and published results with class positioning. All a good thing in my view.

It forced pupils to work, to think and to achieve, and it opened a door for a poor boy.

I recall much shaking of my head when I latterly realised how things had changed since I went to school. Marking, for example, had turned upside down. At my school you started off with full marks and marks were deducted for getting anything wrong, so your answer had to be perfect to get full marks. Latterly I learned that pupils start off with no marks and accumulate marks if they get something correct.

I was quite pleased to get 2 C's and a D for my A levels, and anyone who received an A was exceptional indeed. I despair at today's results where multiple A's are the rule. The reasons behind holding examinations seem to have been subjugated to political expedience.

I welcome the return of grammar schools. Although a socialist, I never agreed with the social experiment that was comprehensive education. It was dogma dictating to common sense. Think of all those bright poor kids who were continually subjected to peer pressure to conform with no external pressure to do better, they were failed by politicians, many of whom attended grammar schools but disgracefully refused to pass on the benefits to younger generations.

So where would I be now if I had not passed the 11+? Probably a retired painter and decorator, as was my father, and living somewhere in London.

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Well I passed my 11+ and elected not to go to Grammar School. So here I am now in Canada making $70,000 annual salary and quite content. I don't dwell on what would have happened if I had attended Grammar school. Would i have gone to Uni or still joined the Army? Whats done is done. In the 70s grammar schools were touted as a higher education than the local secondary schools. I know people from both who are in jail or have been successful or just normal run of the mill folk. Its the Chipping Norton types I ****ing despise :lol:

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It's not though. No real academic learning is done before 11 yrs of age at all and the ability to "outshine" your year group is highly dependent on the parents level of education, which, alas, in turn depended on their parents income.

A self-fulfilling loop, which I benefitted from as a sprog but which I don't think needs reintroducing today.

Quite the opposite.

Re: Grammar schools
 

We each have our own view, but consider a world where a choice of school is either a single category secondary school or fee paying private school.

Those with means will generally choose to send their children to the private sector, and this does matter. I remember one university interview I had where the interviewer described my school as 'only a county grammar'.

Rightly or wrongly 'grammar schools' carry a legacy of high achievement. No doubt there were good and bad examples, but it might tempt some with means to break the mould which they won't do otherwise.

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This is just going to appeal to the type of person who thinks things were better in the old days when they weren't really. Next step, bring back national service.

Re: Grammar schools
 

Well that would reduce the unemployment rate :lol:
I highly doubt that some of the snowflake generation would be able to hack it and be complaining its against their youman rites and they are pacifists.

Re: Grammar schools
 

For the fortunate few, well thats what 'they' say.... who are they?

Awe come on, you know its true;)

isn't that a good thing, if not, why not?

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