Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
#1
Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
The Canadian Association of British Pensioners recently promoted yet another petition to the UK government to request that pensioners living overseas (in places like Canada) get increases in their UK pensions.
The petition is here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821/
If you're not aware of the issue, here's an FAQ page. The short version is that if you're entitled to a UK State Pension, but you retire in Canada (or pretty much anywhere outside the UK and EU), your pension will be frozen at the amount you get when you start taking it. You won't get any pension increases, so inflation will reduce the effective value of your pension over time. If you care about that, sign the petition.
(Note: I have no involvement with the CABP other than being a member, and my interest in this is that I live in Canada and will be eligible to collect a UK State Pension in years to come).
The petition is here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821/
If you're not aware of the issue, here's an FAQ page. The short version is that if you're entitled to a UK State Pension, but you retire in Canada (or pretty much anywhere outside the UK and EU), your pension will be frozen at the amount you get when you start taking it. You won't get any pension increases, so inflation will reduce the effective value of your pension over time. If you care about that, sign the petition.
(Note: I have no involvement with the CABP other than being a member, and my interest in this is that I live in Canada and will be eligible to collect a UK State Pension in years to come).
#2
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Joined: Dec 2016
Location: St Catharines, Ontario From Bournemouth UK
Posts: 417
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
Signed
#4
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
If you’re a pensioner how do they find out you’ve left the country? Couldn’t you just give them a UK PO box and a UK bank account? Just wondering how this is even enforced.
#5
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
Because as part of the claim you have to give them your address, tell them about any time you’ve lived outside of the UK, etc.
Last edited by christmasoompa; Jan 17th 2022 at 6:10 am.
#7
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
1. If people abandon their country, the government of that country no longer bears responsibility for them. That the government is willing to give them anything is surprising, they should not look this gift horse in the mouth.
2. People do not contribute to their own state pension, they fund the pensions of the people drawing at the time of payment, thus no entitlement is established.
3. Non payment of inflationary increases in Canada has been established policy for years. People choosing to move to Canada can reasonably be expected to know this. If these payments are so critical to them they should have moved somewhere else, they can still do so now.
4. The pensioners are not individually rich and are not donors to the Conservative Party. Thus they are not of interest to the government, there's no point in banging on about this, at best it's a waste of time, at worst it gives people false hope.
#8
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
I know you just choose your words to wind people up but...
This is not actually correct. There is a direct link between how much you qualify for and how much you pay in. Therefore entitlement is established.
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2014
Location: Oxford
Posts: 205
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
1. If people abandon their country, the government of that country no longer bears responsibility for them. That the government is willing to give them anything is surprising, they should not look this gift horse in the mouth.
2. People do not contribute to their own state pension, they fund the pensions of the people drawing at the time of payment, thus no entitlement is established.
3. Non payment of inflationary increases in Canada has been established policy for years. People choosing to move to Canada can reasonably be expected to know this. If these payments are so critical to them they should have moved somewhere else, they can still do so now.
4. The pensioners are not individually rich and are not donors to the Conservative Party. Thus they are not of interest to the government, there's no point in banging on about this, at best it's a waste of time, at worst it gives people false hope.
2. People do not contribute to their own state pension, they fund the pensions of the people drawing at the time of payment, thus no entitlement is established.
3. Non payment of inflationary increases in Canada has been established policy for years. People choosing to move to Canada can reasonably be expected to know this. If these payments are so critical to them they should have moved somewhere else, they can still do so now.
4. The pensioners are not individually rich and are not donors to the Conservative Party. Thus they are not of interest to the government, there's no point in banging on about this, at best it's a waste of time, at worst it gives people false hope.
#10
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
That's a good point and not one I had considered despite this theme being discussed perennially. For me the key point is that, if you don't contribute to a country, by living there and paying taxes, you've no real claim on the government of the day in that country. If you want to have that claim you should move back home.
#11
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
I'm fairly sure there have been studies showing that the UK saves a greater amount from pensioners living abroad, not using NHS resources, not receiving means tested benefits etc than the cost of uprating.
#12
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 0
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
That's a good point and not one I had considered despite this theme being discussed perennially. For me the key point is that, if you don't contribute to a country, by living there and paying taxes, you've no real claim on the government of the day in that country. If you want to have that claim you should move back home.
I "abandoned" the UK, but have remained subject to the whims of the UK electorate and actions of the UK government, for example, in the case of those of us in Europe, Brexit.
Many of us expat pensioners continue to pay UK taxes, and will do so whether we like it or not. In fact the tax I have already paid since abandoning the UK will pay the first 7 years of my UK State pension - above & beyond the 37 years NI contributions I made before retiring.
Pensioners retiring abroad are beneficial to the UK - by not using NHS / LA health & social care facilities, by releasing accommodation, by not clogging up the infrastructure. Expat pensioners who are entitled to UK health coverage offer remarkablly good value, for example the NHS has estimated that pensioners in Spain cost approximately €1200 less in treatment costs than if they were UK resident, plus, as I say above, do not take up, bed block, UK health care facilities.
Expats do not (quite rightly) enjoy other benefits such as bus passes (cost to the UK exchequer over £1 billion p.a).
Expats, much to my amazement, do contribute to UK businesses and boost UK exports they can also act as ambassadors for the UK and promote interests.
Putting all this to one side, the level of pension paid should be equal regardless of domicile; those who approve of a differential might also be suggesting that pensioners in the north of the UK should receive less of a pension as their cost of living is less and because they have probably contributed less (due to lower incomes) during their careers.
In fact the UK should actually promote the idea of retirees becoming expats!
#13
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2014
Location: Oxford
Posts: 205
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
Do expat UK citizens in Canada get the right to vote in British elections? National and council and [well, not any more...] European? I was surprised to find I had recently gained the ability to vote in Canadian federal elections - I am British and Canadian, have not lived in Canada for several decades. Building on dbd33's last point, feels odd that I get to influence what happens in Canada, without bearing any of the consequences [benefits]. So, on a global totting up, I get twice as many votes[*] as someone who elects to stay in the country of their birth.
[*] I understand the mathematical flaw, but you get the idea
[*] I understand the mathematical flaw, but you get the idea
#14
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 0
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
British Expats can vote (in theory) in UK general elections for up to 15 years after emigrating.
(I say theoretically because in every election event since 2014 (including the infamous referendum) we have either not received ballot papers or they have arrived too late, despite being posted, allegedly, 4 weeks prior). I can vote in Budapest's local elections but not in the Hungarian GE, unless I become a Hungarian citizen.
(I say theoretically because in every election event since 2014 (including the infamous referendum) we have either not received ballot papers or they have arrived too late, despite being posted, allegedly, 4 weeks prior). I can vote in Budapest's local elections but not in the Hungarian GE, unless I become a Hungarian citizen.
#15
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Joined: Dec 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 761
Re: Petition to unfreeze UK pensions for those living abroad
The system is unfair in more than one way:
1. British retirees residing in the EU or US get full indexation. So do Canadians living in Britain. Not to mention Brits living in Britain. The same rules should apply regardless of location.
2. British retirees residing in Canada can “buy” extra years of state pension from Britain for peanuts.
1 and 2 cancel each other out.
1. British retirees residing in the EU or US get full indexation. So do Canadians living in Britain. Not to mention Brits living in Britain. The same rules should apply regardless of location.
2. British retirees residing in Canada can “buy” extra years of state pension from Britain for peanuts.
1 and 2 cancel each other out.