Shard

I think the Out campaign will be more balanced than the UKIP hysteria of late. John Redwood was speaking on it the other day, he along with other Eurosceptics ought to be heard, at least.

I think the referendum process will also shed some light on what Europe intends to become. There is no point presenting the public with a technical referendum, the choice is essentially, increased integration (In) or greater autonomy (Out).

Pizzawheel

At this stage the EU clearly needs some sort of reform, there's too much of a gap between the industrial north and the sun soaked south (there, I said it politely).

The UK seems to be in quite a weird position because of the disproportionate influence of London as the financial capital of the world. No other European nation- hell not many nations at all- have this sort of juggernaught in one corner of the country that creates an economy that's inhospitable to manufacturing and other secondary industries. The closest I've experienced is Nigeria where the oil industry- and the artificially high currency it leads too- has destroyed agriculture and prevented any serious industrialisation, it's all too high cost.

So the "OUT" vote might hurt the city- but it will certainly hurt industry, eg all of those car plants across the midlands/ north.

Yet the real fear is that an out vote will just a vote against the polish plumber.

BristolUK

I'm sure straight bananas (or was it curved ones?); Bombay mix; Bangers; Firefighters poles (ooh er missus) and all the rest are more than 0.1%

jimf

Those headings would be used by both the yes and no camps. The reality is that the EU costs the UK taxpayer a fair amount of money.

Shard

I suppose the same headings could be used, but different arguments. In economic terms the best the No (sceptic) can say is that the UK won't suffer economically. There is the financial levy issue and future of the City, that will give the No some ammunition, and that will be something worth considering once some numbers and analyses are out. On balance though, the UK ought to be economically stronger within than without IMO.

Cultural terms, more specifically social terms, I don't think there are many but retired colonels and extreme right wingers that don't appreciate some of the European reforms.

Historic, it's more a case of avoiding war than guarding faded British glories.

Editha

The question of how much the EU costs, or indeed whether it costs anything at all, is complicated. The antis tend to just point to how much we pay in directly, and that we get less back. But that ignores the trade benefits of being in, and that a lot of companies are in the UK precisely because it gives them access to EU markets. It would only need a few of them to relocate and the financial loss of leaving would far outweigh the gains.

jimf

I think the no supporter would strongly disagree with the statement in bold. They would make the case that the EU is dragging the UK down. Whether that's true or not I don't know..

One of the retired colonels...

EU referendum: Kate Hoey gets backing to head no campaign | Politics | The Guardian

"European reforms" - such as?

What point are you making with the last line? The EU prevents wars?

Novocastrian

(Out), in fact, yields less autonomy, unless the UK also leaves the EEA, since EU Regulations would still have to be adhered to and the UK would have no voice in their formulation.

Leaving the EEA would give the UK autonomy to decide how to best complete its suicide.

Pizzawheel

Rebuild the commonwealth and through that the empire. India has been looking lost since we left, all this BRIC talk notwithstanding.

Shard

We know which way you're voting!

Shard

The sceptics may disagree on the bolded statement, but the reality is 'bird in the hand vs bird in the bush'. Not unlike Scotland's case with Salmond promising untold prosperity (week's before the oil price crash).

The EU aims to prevent wars amongst it's members. (That was a key motivation of the EEC.) Successful to date.

BritInParis

"We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple. All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong and to gain as their reward blessing instead of cursing."

- Winston Churchill, September 1946

MikeUK

Well the first thing that will change, will be our national credit rating, and its unlikely to be positive

So all those bitching about taxes to the EU, will instead pay much more in there mortgage to the banks

And so will Multinationals with UK based operations, so I'd expect the 'work' to move east...

The polish make have followed the work here, but if you make them leave a good portion of the work will follow them

Yorkiechef

Didn't the U.S. have a civil war?

BristolUK

Pretty uncivil if you ask me.