English Spelling
 

Is English spelling really that difficult?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-children.html

Re: English Spelling
 

No. She's an idiot.

Re: English Spelling
 

[QUOTE=jimf;8687594]Is English spelling really that difficult?

I don't think so - Just my opinion :D....I think these problems have now surfaced due to "text speak".

If u hve kids spellin like dis all the time, thy r going 2 strugle!

I can't STAND it when someone sends an email or writes you a note with abbreviated spelling......drives me up the wall and one of the reasons I will not purchase my kids Cell phones yet....Im so mean! :lol:

Just my tuppence worth.....:eek:

Re: English Spelling
 

[QUOTE=NatsnSid;8687640]I have 2 kids growing up in Italy and have followed the way they were taught Italian. It really is all about phonetics and syllables and sounds and they never change and you are taught this and you can then read every word in Italian. It's true.

It made me understand why, at my school and of course other schools in England, we were given 10 spellings to learn every week......and we bloody learnt them and the difference between:

enough
borough
bough
borrow
tough
though
thorough
etc. etc.

Is English not so phonetic or syllabic? YES. Can it be learnt properly with proper spelling? YES.

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If it's so bloody difficult why do so many people around the world speak English?

I don't see 'em queuing up to learn Finnish!:p

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Agreed.

My Sister lives in Italy (about 30 minutes outside Ferrara) and I love the Italian language. Once you get the basics everything clicks.

I may not be able to hold a lengthy conversation but I can understand the conversation around me and reply in disjointed sentences/words. (I used to stun my fluent Sister when I'd say "basta" when she was talking about me! haha).

I hope the weather is lovely in Vicenza.

N

Re: English Spelling
 

Not all of them speak it properly though but those that really study do a good job of it. In fact it's disgraceful to say that quite a few foreigners have a better grasp of the English language these days than many of those born and raised there.

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Exactly - so if bloody foreigners :p can learn it, why can't the daft Brit kids? :confused: I thought kids were supposed to be getting smarter than the previous generation!

I spent a few years in Switzerland as a kid, and got quite fluent in French and German. But everyone around us could speak Italian, German, French and English.

I forgot my "foreign" languages when we moved back to the UK.

Having taught for 10 years the biggest indicator of how quickly kids read and write is how many books the parents read, and whether they read to their kids. Charles Dickens managed to learn to write pretty well, and he was brought up in a boot blacking factory (not sure if that corroborates what I just said or not!)!

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That's what "they" keep telling us. :rolleyes:

Re: English Spelling
 

Thank you - it was 38°C at the weekend - very hot for the North - still hot but not as humid and sticky.

Anyway - I have more than the heat that is stopping me from going to bed tonight ...... I found a baby bat on my kitchen floor earlier and am still unsure what to do with it. There's a "helpful" thread in progress in 'The Lounge' part of the forum.

P.S: Sorry folks for deviating - but the little bat is pressing on my conscience.

Re: English Spelling
 

If the bat was outside, I would say leave it - hopefully it's mum would find it. Since it's inside.... maybe take it to a bat rescue society (:confused:). They're getting quite rare.

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Okay I may be missing the point here , but how can " the complexities of English spelling" be responsible for "increasing levels of illiteracy."

I don't believe the language has become more complex in recent years!

What has changed is the teaching methodology, it's no longer accepted to teach by rote. Sometimes that's the only way to learn to spell certain words.

Spelling was bound to suffer when marks are not deducted for incorrect spelling of words.

Re: English Spelling
 

I don't want to deviate from this English spelling thread so whilst I do, I'm trying to make my spelling perfect.

The little bat was found on the kitchen floor - still is but in utility room now - and I'm not going anywhere at 1.13 am in the morning. I was on my way to bed when I found him/her but the lovely comments on the bat thread put paid to that.

Re: English Spelling
 

In part I agree.

The complexities of English language have always been there but we were taught well weren't we? Even if it was by parrot method or goddamn learn your 10 spellings method. We did learn. And by golly we learnt the simple difference between there, their, and they're. The diffrerence bewteen accept and except. The way to write advice and advise.

Re: English Spelling
 

English is simpler than other languages, there's no genders for words and you can completely mangle pronunciation and english speakers will still understand you.

The words given in the example on the article have similar sounds out of context but in a sentence they can sound different.

Oh and removing all the different spellings kills off a lot of Puns.

Re: English Spelling
 

I think that she is sooooo right & we should stop pushing kids so hard - they have to learn sooo much and we all no that learning can't be fun - they should be playing computer games, hanging round street corners, taking / selling drugs, etc. The only skill you need for this is Maths (adding, subtraction and multiplying so that you can work out how much you have to pay and receive - understanding gross and net is good as if you don't your dealer might break your legs).

The antique, inconsistent English spelling system is indeed probably the main reason why the UK has more educational underachievement than any other European country. A spelling system that has naturally evolved over centuries should be changed to suit the new generation.

We could also burn all the history books as it takes so long to learn about it and when you do it is all out of date. :rofl:

Alternatively it might be cos of liberals like her excusing the inadequacies of the current crop of children and some of their teachers (not all of them but just those who share her such misguided beliefs) that achieve success in any area of life is not as a consequence of either be gifted, willing to work hard or just being extremely lucky. The way that we test and measure children in the UK doesn't help as we have now got a system which lowers the benchmark so that those who would have previously excelled might become bored and thus distracted.

The one thing I remember from my childhood is if I misbehaved and someone asked me why, I never said the real reason as I figured out that it was easy to use an excuse that a liberal doo gooder would then allow me off scot free without any consequence other than having to hug a few trees.

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I know you're talking as much rubbish as the woman in the article. If you want to be serious then be so - if not - shut up.

Is that English enough for you?

Re: English Spelling
 

Dear oh dear! what utter drivel, and what a stupid woman!!

That article was a waste of paper space!

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& talking about a bat on a forum about the English Language is being serious and not going off tangent? Practice what you preach comes to mind.

Is that plain enough English for you?

Re: English Spelling
 

It is English enough yes. Did I go a little off tangent? Yes. I still think your talk of computer games and learning maths to sell drugs is rubbish though. I presume you were being sarcastic.

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How absolutely nail-on-the-head true!

Masha Bell has form in the "simplify spelling" movement. It's a familiar hobby horse of a few (IMHO very misguided) individuals who seem to me to be far keener on excusing the appalling spelling of children rather than addressing the fundamental failings of the spell-as-you-speak ideology.

"Simplifying" or systematising spelling would not only destroy the etymological links English has with its donor languages, it would also by extension make it even more difficult for English speakers to learn a second (European) language if those linkages are removed.

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Did you actually read his whole post? I'm surprised you couldn't see the bulge his tongue made in his cheek from all the way over there in Italy.... :p

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I did but I had the jitters and was writing on another thread at the same time and I wasn't concentrating properly. It was very late as well and I was knackered.

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Seeing as how we're such lovely people over here in Canadianland, we'll forgive you your lack of concentration this once. Especially since you appear to have avoided any heinous crimes against spelling and grammar, despite your knackeredness ;)

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Amazing isnt it? Especially if you count the glasses of wine consumed as well as the tiredness factor :eek:

Thank you lovely people in Canadianland for your forgiveness. I'll try not to be so crass in the future.

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Except when speaking to Canadians:p Why can`t they understand that privacy is what I call pr-eye-vacy?:rofl:

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[QUOTE=Lorna at Vicenza;8687667]You are right in this. You can only know how to pronounce those words if you have learned them by heart. This is not confined to English. I have had discussions in the past with my OH regarding masculine and feminine nouns in French. You can't guess at the gender of a noun because there are no rules. You pick it up as you go along. A good way to remember, apparently, is to attach the noun to an adjective.

Re: English Spelling
 

[QUOTE=Souvy;8689209]As you say some things just have to be learned, which takes a bit of effort, and its not just English. Unfortunately, my guess would be that most of the 20% that fail to achieve a reasonable standard of literacy come from homes where the meaning of the word library isn't known never mind how to spell it. Formal teaching can only do so much if the family background just doesn't value learning.

Re: English Spelling
 

It's called Irony. That's in the English language too. It's a simple word, but the concept is clearly lost on so many people.

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Yes I know. Read on beyond that and you'll see I explained myself and apologised.

Re: English Spelling
 

Ok. My mistake.

The article is a load of Bollocks though. She is talking out of her arse if you ask me. My 7 year old son is dealing with all these complicated words now. It's just down to the parents to ensure they put the time and effort in. Is this women making excuses for the kids or the parents?

Re: English Spelling
 

Interesting article - thanks for posting.

My 2¢.
I've taught secondary English on both sides of the pond - can't say I've seen any big differences between pedagogy and student ability. An underlying problem re spelling (more specifically literacy) is a massive societal and educational problem, including:

*Poor grounding in the parts of speech (K-4).
*Low number of children reading - and generally poor readers at that.
*Lack of writing with follow-up revision; both at school and at home.
*Numerous distractions affecting studies and schooling (xbox/Teh Internez/DVD/TV/sports/shopping malls/part-time work). E-mail, chat, texting and twitter all shit on the English language.
*Weakening schooling systems and teaching (i.e class size, teacher training (pedagogy), interfering bureaucracy, et al.).
*An overemphasis upon math and science in school (I've never seen a colleague "mark" a math/science assignment/test for SP/PU/GRM).
*Lazyness.
*Chinglish instructions ;).
*And the biggest problem: poor parenting. In these great democracies of Can/UK, parents have demanded and pressured kids, schools, instititutions to be more accepting and inclusive. Homogeneity and big-box blah average is the norm. Parents insist that their kids succeed regardless - regardless of the child's real ability, work ethic, and actual accomplishments.

However, basic language skills aside, English is an evolving and changing language - maybe we are old school and can't adapt to the times?

http://www.vertaalbureau-chinees.nl/...inglish032.jpg

Re: English Spelling
 

this amused me and is vaguely related :)

Re: English Spelling
 

This hits the nail on the head for me. Being a parent is like a second career. If we want to make a success of it, you simply have to put the time and effort in. Just blaming the school system is an excuse. I want my children to go out into their adult lives with as many skills as we can help equip them with. This includes a good education, social skills and good habits such as healthy eating and an appreciation in sport and physical exercise.

If we rely on the schools to provide these skills alone, then we doing our kids a disservice.

Re: English Spelling
 

This seems reasonable......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...education.html

Re: English Spelling
 

Irony eh? Do reactionary rants about liberals and "doo gooders" get counted as that now-a-days?

Re: English Spelling
 

Ahem. I think we have a glass house/stone interface situation.

<and a coat moment>

Re: English Spelling
 

Have you read Freakanomics?

The author makes a similar assertion in his book. The study reveals similar findings to that of the article above. He elaborates by saying there is a strong correlation between the number of books in a home with the level of education of the parents. With more books being owned by the more educated parents. He then suggests that just filling your home with books will not guarantee a better educated child, but that this is affected by the level of education of the parent (i.e. their attitude towards education and the child inheriting the parents genes).

The study in the Telegraph is suggesting that irrespective of a parents education, if they like to read and promote reading, this will have a positive impact on the child's own education. So in other words, just because somebody didn't go to university doesn't make them thick and unable, or unwilling, to make a positive contribution to their child's education by promoting reading in the home.

Phew. I'm done writing now.

Re: English Spelling
 

The first part of his post used Irony. The second part was a bit of a rant, I grant you. However, I don't think the employment of irony is in any way dependent of the subject matter.

Did you ever read Viz? The Modern Parents were a classic example of having a bash at liberal do gooders in a very ironic way.

Re: English Spelling
 

I guess you can say it used irony.

And?

I am aware of the exploits of Malcolm and Cressida.