Hey up ... moving from Scotland to Toronto area in summer and bringing our three dogs with us. Two questions really ...

1) Outdoor Access in Scotland is pretty much where you want to walk you can ... new legislation gives certain rights - often called the right to roam - but basically allows us to go where we like ... not restricted to parks or trails - is there anything similar in Toronto/Ontario (what level of government would legislate for this - Scotland is national - but then we are pretty small in comparison?!)

2) Dogs - we have three lovely, reasonably well trained dogs who like to be off lead for some of the time they are big and can be boisterous and like a good run about ... we are thinking of moving somewhere north westward of Toronto - suburbs or smaller town just outside ... any really good places folk know of for dog walking that we can check out?!

Thanks for any advice!

I have just walked in from a trudge with an unleashed dog, here two hours (by transit) northwest of Toronto. We ran into a dozen other unleashed dogs, all of them in contravention of by-laws. There's no right to roam in Ontario (for people or dogs) and almost nowhere that a dog can legally run unleashed on land not belonging to the dog owner. AFAIK all Provincial and National parks require that dogs be leashed but then, there's rarely anyone around, so who's to know?

In Toronto proper there are lots of fenced dog parks, we often go to Greenwood, Allan Gardens and Woodbine Beach, but no unfenced areas that I know of where dogs can run free. That said, Riverdale Park always contains unleashed dogs. You have to accept that in Ontario generally every innocent pastime breaks some law, you just have to accept that and be ready to be fined now and then.

Be aware that, in the country, farmers will not hesitate to shoot an unleashed dog, they're free to do so.

Thanks dbd33 - I was getting the general impression that things were a bit more restrictive - reading the municipal code for Toronto is quite impressive what is legislated for and against!! - than here! Suppose thats just one of those things! We'll be having a look at the fenced dog park areas - but are these pretty well used - or can you get a quiet time as well if you time it right?!

Also, in terms of the right to roam etc ... realising that this does not exist as such ... in areas of 'countryside' i.e. those bits that are not farmed, nor designated conservation areas ... can folk walk/explore these - or is it a case of 'not a designated trail/park/recreation area - no go'? Or again, is it a case of one thing is written, but another actually done (when no harm would come of doing so?!)

I have lived in country the whole time I have lived in Canada, and on a farm, born and bred....never did we ever shoot a neighbours dog!! And yes there were lots, they come and chase our horses and cows and bark half the night.

We did however call said neighbours and asked them to tie their dogs up as they were causing havic. If this was not done, shots were fired in the air to frighten the dogs, Not kill them!! If they still continued to run we called local dog catcher. Maybe we were softies...........we were told once we were bad nighbours b/c we complained that THEIR dogs were on our property and chasing our livestock.....it was unfortunate they were hit by a horse trailor the next week.
I know of only once a farmer shot a neighbours dog....
I personally disagree with it as there are other ways to handle the situation.

But guess if the dog was attacking one of my family I might change my mind.

Areas of countryside as you call them, will be owned by someone...basically if it isn't yours and you do not have permission, stay off it.....I would not be happy to find someone walking their dog on my land.

Whilst there is a right to take access across private land here, it is caveated with certain responsibilities - and accessing farmland has a lot of guidance on it! Farmers have the right to protect livestock and will shoot dogs if they are causing damage, but it rarely happens (I have worked with dog owners and farmers for years and only know of this happening once) - most landowners/farmers would hate to kill a pet unless an absolute last resort.

Seems fair enough - I know that the right to roam act here is fairly unique in giving rights to access land no matter who owns it (including the queens own estates!) - but could not find anything on the web about what the score was in Canada - well Ontario - so this is all very useful stuff! Thanks folks!

I'd set that aside, you'll be the only ordinary citizen to have read it. Many by-laws, especially those concerning dogs, alcohol and smoking (mainly weed) are widely ignored.

I've never been in one and been alone, at any time of day or night, but none have ever been so crowded as to limit ball and stick throwing.

You will struggle to find any such place. We walk on the grounds of a monastry, a university, and a loonie bin, none is technically a leash free zone but the few people one comes across don't seem concerned.

Technically, all such places are no go areas but it's very much a case of one thing written, another done, you just have to go with the flow.

Don't go digging in my manure pile! Shoot, Shovel, Shut up - that's the rule in the country.

LOL well if you live in country you know then the said manure pile will be spread on a field at some point, so they will be digging up all those little furry bodies LOL

It is merely as last resort would anyone shoot a neighbours dog, but good neighbours keep their dogs either fenced in or tied or in house.....

This was one of our greatest gripes with Vancouver area (well, Coquitlam anyway). There were loads of great parks, some used more than others, but none allowed dogs off lead at any sort of reasonable time (some were before 10am - no good if you have a 1 yr old to get ready first). We regularly saw a dog warden at one of them, standing waiting for owners to come around a corner with dogs off a lead (even in driving rain, but it was Vancouver...!).

We also fell foul of the fact that BC and the lower mainland is full of beautiful, wild spaces, but very few are truly accessible. The odd trail here and there exists, but they are either very heavily used and short (classic tourist, stop 5mins, walk, then back in car), or ultra long distance and too heavy going for a small family outing.

We are used to the English countryside, where you have the right to walk with a dog under close control (not necessarily on a lead) across a huge footpath network. In many cases, in summer at least, you can push an off road push chair around many of them too. Many rural and semi rural properties will have a footpath within a very short distance of their front door (and many urban areas too). If you are lucky, you will find a loop from the front door that very few people use (we have a 20 min loop, 30 min, 40 min, 50 min ....).

I suspect this was one of the greatest reasons that we left Canada 12 - 18 months after arriving.

PS If it isn't the case - please feel free to prove me wrong and I'll advise the OH and maybe we'll be back!

From my door (or close enough) I can access all manner of trails, forestry roads, wilderness and general outdoors for the purposes of walking, atv'ing or skidooing. Right to roam has only a passing relevance to an area the size of UK with <1% of the population.

Depends where you live in BC - I've always had access to Crown Land directly off property I've owned and 1,000's of acres of hiking, ATV, snowmobile and horse riding trails. I've not used a leash for my dogs since moving here, but am just 20 minutes drive from downtown Kamloops.

Wow. We've never had trouble finding places to let our dog run free. As dbd33 said of Toronto, there are plenty of places that are technically on-leash but in practice are off-leash.

We have an official off-leash park within walking distance that is not fenced and leads into a vast series of trails that are only technically on-leash. All suitable for a stroller. There is another official off-leash park within a ten minute drive and in winter people also use the adjacent beach. Right next to White Rock there is a stretch of beach on reservation land. The Semihamoo Nation don't seem to mind people running their dogs on the beach and at low tide there is all the room you need for even the most energetic dog.

I think there is an etiquette to letting dogs run free in parks and public places and that is to ensure they are not a nuisance to other park users - especially non-doggy types. Have the dog under verbal control at all times and recall them and slip a leash on whenever you meet other people. The bye law officers usually only turn up if people complain so we do our best to make sure no-one has anything to complain about.

Our dog comes with us whenever we go hiking. We've not had any problems so far. I do accept your point that most of it needs a vehicle to get to. Our nearest dog park is a fifteen minute walk with a leash to get to and from. However, and I may be forgetting something, the rights of way in the UK don't give the public the right to run their dogs off-leash across farmland. Unless you live right next to common land for the vast majority of people in the UK the only rights of way they have access to will be across farmland.

I have heard of some reasons for returning to blighty but not being able to ramble and letting your dog off the lead have to be up there in bizarro world

Agreed. Moreover, I'm quite sure we have a dog-leash somewhere in the house or garage. I've not seen it for years but our dog gets walked twice every day somehow or other.

Interesting you say that - for us, the ability to ramble with a 1 - 3 yr old and a dog off lead without running into all and sundry (as is often the case in the busy areas) is one of the more important things for us. It is, after all, a major pass time of ours (and I am sure many dog owners and lovers of the countryside would agree). Interestingly we discovered this only after we arrived.

Another poster mentioned that it depends on where you are located, and I entirely agree. Our experience was of Vancouver as this is where I was most likely to get work - possibly the biggest driver for living in a given location. Secondly, with a young child, EASY access to good schooling and plentiful local amenities was also key (such as hospitals). While I know people do like living in rural areas with young children, this was a decision we had taken and I believe still holds correct - for us. Essentially, our mistake was expecting the convenience of village life in England, but missing the point that this isn't always possible.

Where we live now, we're within 30 mins of a major city, 1.5 hrs of London, within 1 hr of the beach, within 30 mins of Englands largest lowland pine forest (all open access - dogs allowed to run free at all times, and in the right place, you wont see anyone else) yet we live in a small village, just 3 miles from a market town.

We lived in Coquitlam, close to Como Lake Park and Mundy Forest, and we often went to the Pacific Park and Rocky Point Park in PoMo. All very nice places (we especially liked Mundy Forest - dogs off lead before 10am), but all had a formalised feel to them - very busy and/or hard paths etc (a real culture shock was the number of walkers in Mundy Forest with a Starbucks cup...!).

Back to the original point - the dogs off lead was merely a symptom of a greater issue. We found Vancouver / Coquitlam to be significantly more restrictive than England (and Scotland) in terms of letting dogs run free.