Bollocks. How about training the animal properly in the first place so it doesn't bark. There is no possible excuse, ever, for maiming a dog for the pleasure of its owners. Sheer barbarism.

As for the tail docking, I suppose there are, very occasionally, circumstances where it would be appropriate for genuine working dogs. But the proportion of docked breeds who actually work is tiny. Kennel clubs should ban, forthwith, any docked animal from dog shows. That would stop unnecessary maiming overnight - it's the show breeders who perpetuate the nonsense that "it's for the dog's own good." If you don't like how your dog would look with a tail, get a different kind of dog, don't hack the bloody thing off.

Bollocks? Now Oak, I'm sure you meant to say "My dear lady, I am frightfully sorry, however I quite disagree with your opinion".

In any case, I can see no redemption for anyone that de-barks a dog. Utter cruelty and a disturbing display of disregard for a living thing.

A dog barking out of excitement is one thing, part and parcel of being a dog. A dog barking out of insecurity, anger or boredom is quite another matter and is generally the fault of the owner.

Of course I did. Isn't that what I said? Oops.

However, the sentiment remains. I find I get riled surprisingly easily by those defending the aims of the Kennel Club and the practices undertaken by breeders to meet those aims. Not that they countenance de-barking, but the tail-docking and inbreeding in the name of "conformance" is all part and parcel of the same attitude, IMHO.

Of course, Piff Poff herself wasn't defending the practice in her post above - she just mentioned it and got my goat. Still, I just utterly fail to see how there is ever a justification for maiming a dog to keep it quiet. One wouldn't countenance doing that to a person, I suspect.

Ah.

Ah?

Ah. In the middle of the night, with neighbours banging on the wall in protest at a still screaming person, I have countenanced chopping her head off.

No I wasn't defending the actions of tail docking, just saying where the history of it came from - unless a dog is going to be used as a working dog then there is no point in docking tails.

Nor was I defending debarking, yes a dog should be trained properly not to bark excessively, excessively barking dogs drive me nuts, especially the one that lives diagonally opposite us that is bored stupid and barks all day long and all night sometimes too, do the owners call it in or tell it to shut up or take it for a walk? No. Actually I haven't seen it or heard it for a little while so it must have been sent to the rehoming facility or put down, they do seem to have a new one that barks now though.

Some breeds naturally bark all the time and some of them have a high pitched yap (shelties do) and that can get right on your neighbours nerves, when that happens and they report you, you can be forced to either surrender your dogs or have it debarked, these could be dogs that are inside barking at the post man, or the kid walking past the house, you may have a dog that barks at every little noise when your out - what are you going to do? Send it to the animal shelter to be later killed to make room for the next one? I do agree it is the owners fault and not the poor dogs.

I won't ever have to face that problem as I have a dog that barks when the door bell rings or if there is suspicious behaviour and he wants us to know about it, if he is outside, he gets called in straight away. He doesn't even bark at the postie anymore and he doesn't bark at anyone if we are not home. How much a dog barks instictively should be researched before you bring that adorable little bundle of fluff home.

It's a tough one even with working dogs.

Apparently for it to be done with the least possible discomfort it needs to be carried out before they are 10 days old.

If you have a litter of working dogs this means you really need to get them done before a buyer even looks at the dog. Then who's to say that the dog will be a succesful worker anyway.

Tbh we bought our retard because a) we wanted one and b) if we decided to work him then it's the breed to get for what we wanted.

It's looking like at the moment that he won't ever be worked.

So if we were buying from a breeder who gave you the option upon choosing the dog, we'd have lopped his tail off for nothing . (Luckily / unluckily this was done before we even laid eyes on him) but how can anyone determine what something may or may not do in the future and base a decision like whacking off their tail on it.

Docking, ear-lopping, shock collars, choke chains with barbs that stick in their neck, dogs left outside in all weathers, dogs left in cars, dogs tied up to trees in yards with no shelter and puppy farms - seen them all and all too common here in America - I was stunned when I first moved here.

We rescued a Weimararner from an unwanted litter - she still has her tail and I get thoroughly whipped with it all day long - I've even had some folk, wait for it, telling me they didn't realise that Weims came with a tail!

And now folks, you know why we mailed our PR applications off a few months ago.

we have boxers and have never had one with a tail, i do know someone that had one with a tail and slammed it so hard against a wall when excited it broke the bone resulting in a painful amputation, this is also common in dobermans, i will always have boxers without tails, i have bred boxers and have always had them docked at 2 days old at my vets advice - see followin link as to reasons

http://www.cdb.org/boxer_tail.htm

docking is not illegal in the uk as long as done by a vet that is registerd with the docking council the breeder of docked breeds also has to be registered with the docking council - it is illegal for the breeder to do it!

the dogs have to be done before 3 days old, when there dew claws are also removed, (yet not one comment bout the dew claw removal i notice!)
i certainly dont agree with voicebox removal or ear cropping that is barbaric and certainly doesnt make the dog more attractive an i cant think of any medical reason why it would be done whatsoever!

what the kc should be dealing with is other dog issues due to their breed standards such as why the good ole british bulldog can now no longer give birth naturally!

I disagree with any animal mutilation... I have a friend who had their cats declawed so they "don't wreck my leather couch" - I had to leave the room when she told me because I was so disgusted.

My dog, unfortunately, was already docked when we bought her, supposedly because their tails are whispy and curl like a pigs which is total bullsh*t. They have normal tails!

My poor wee lass has 2 inches of tailbone (it's supposed to be a minimum of 4") covered by a thin layer of skin and hair - the skin is so tight over the end of her stub that you can see the bone. Disgusting. When she tries to "wag" it, all you can see is a bit of hair movement. It wasn't obvious when we got her, just when she grew.

Needless to say if I ever get another dog or let her have puppies their tails will be left intact!

As to dew claws, she still has hers - I have to trim them every 4 weeks so they don't turn inwards and injure her (they get sharp!).

Why would you let her have puppies? Not a dig or anything, just curious.

Many dog breeds are genetic dead ends - dog breeders have bred them into freaks. e.g. they selectively breed dogs to have such whippy tails that they have to chop them off to prevent injury and then act like they are doing the dog a favour ... amazing.

Sorry, just in case is not a good enough reason to mutilate a dog, or cat in case of 'declawing'. My cat broke his leg the other day, should I have his other legs amputated just in case he injuries himself further and costs me another $1000?

I recognise that tail docking is partially traditional - but that's no excuse, at all. Neither is because that's how the kennel club recognise them.

All living creatures have accidents at some time - mutilation as prevention, tradition or even vanity is evil.

this makes no sense - breeders selectivly breed to have a whippy tail jus to cut them off when i bred the only selection i did is the heart score - due to years of unnessesary interbreeding a boxers trait is aortic stenosis, so when im choosin a sire i make sure i have a certificate from a cardioligist confirmin the dogs heart condition because as with many other decent boxer breeders we're tryin to breed this problem out of the breed full stop, the tail is something that to me is not as important as this!