Actually, a shock collar in use by a skilled trainer can be a valuable shortcut in some types of training, saving considerable time. However, when being used by someone who doesn't know what they're doing it's easy to ruin a potentialy good dog. Some of the best trainers in the world are divided on this issue. I worked a couple of years training hunting retrievers in a kennel and though the owner had shock collarrs I never saw them used. The writer of the training book I liked best (of the half doz or so I found) was against them - called collar users 'fry cooks'. Personaly I feel it's a choice that should be tailored to the individual dog and the individual trainer. It's like force training (brainwashing your dog with physical pain/memory cues), and deserves some serious thought before you decide to do it to your dog.

Well said.

True. We did see a lot of psychotic looking rotties and the like up for adoption. But generally the SPCA will tell you if the dog is ok with kids, other dogs, cats etc. At least they did where I live.

All these people that have tried the shock collar, did you actually put it on your throat? I have a rescue dog and have clicker trained him. I take him to class every week we do our home work every day and he is coming along nicely but slowly. Give them some time and patience and maybe keep them on a lead when they are around problematic situations and try clicker training. It really is a proud moment when you start getting results and your little buddy starts working with you out of love rather than fear. We live in a society that has to have every thing right now. Well dogs just don't work that way. Take a bit more time out of your day to work with your hairy friend rather than zapping the crap out of them.
And next time you have a bad day or are in a stressful situation imagine then getting an electric shock to help things along and see how much better you feel!

Is this the internet forum equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la not listening la la la"?

Yes, I've tried it on my throat, again, the "shock" is very similar to what I get from TENS machine (that I use for pain relief).

Just out of interest, have any of you guys who are against them tested one on yourself? How did it feel?

We have two dogs from breeders, one of them is one of those designer non-breeds, a deliberate hybrid. At the time of acquiring the dog I had an autistic person around the house and couldn't risk a dog that might react badly to odd behaviour. The hybrid dog came as advertised, calm in all circumstances. A dog with an unknown history was a risk I wasn't prepared to take. The other dog is of an uncommon type in Canada, not available from a pound.

It's a choice thing isn't it. If one wants a dog, but one doesn't care what type of dog, then what you have suggested is fine. If one wants something specific, such a dog may not be available.

Yes, and it hurt like hell - nothing like the pleasant tingle from the TENS machine I used when giving birth!

I personally would never use pain to train a dog, jmo.

The lowest settings don't 'hurt like hell', they tingle at best. Emotive phrases like that just suggest you've little experience of using them. An adrenaline pumped dog that's too excited to pay attention to a command certainly isn't bothered by the briefest use of a collar on an appropriate setting.

Tell me what you'd choose to do after a year+ of training and little success in removing unwanted behaviour. Collies in particular have obsessive/compulsive dispositions, it's a breed trait, which unfortunately doesn't make them easy pets to take care of, particularly if previous behaviour has gone unchecked for years. I've no qualms about using a device that ultimately improves the quality of life for a dog, for the sake of perhaps a few seconds of mild discomfort at the outset of training.

I think there's a common misconception that people use them as a punishment. I'm sure a few people do, but they are meant to be used as a deterrent ie/ you give them a warning sound when you see the cue. If they continue, they get a mild shock. The idea is to distract them- not to punish them.

In our experience, I've found it's worked really well when other methods have failed.

Sorry, but it *did* hurt like hell - please don't tell me how I felt. It was a very nasty shock that caused me to shout out, and throbbed for about an hour afterwards. I'm only 5ft, and weigh no more than 7.5 stone so perhaps it affected me more than you? Certainly 'tingle at best' wasn't my experience, and I should perhaps add that the one I used had a setting that went up to 8, and I only used it on number 3 so goodness only knows what it was like on the highest setting.

As I said above, I've seen dogs burnt and scarred from them, so I know the damage they can do. I'm sure you would use it responsibly, but there are plenty of people out there that don't. If they are so good, then why are they banned in so many countries and why are the Kennel Club calling for them to be banned in the UK as well?

Re: training, it would depend on the dog. Clicker training has often been successful on foster dogs we've had with severe behavioural issues as has gundog/whistle training.

As I've said above, this is *just my opinion*!

Exactly.

I still wouldn't use any pain based method though.

Because of emotive response.