Does punishment work?
Apr 14th 2008, 5:02 am
#1
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Does punishment work?
I can only consider things from the point of view of someone my age - which is understandable. My granddaughter did something stupid. It wasn't criminal - it was just sneaky and she knew very well it wasn't allowed.
Anyway, that was the Thursday before last. Since then she has had her phone taken away, she cannot use the computer, she cannot go out. Her Mom would not even let her go to the library with me. Saturday morning she was still in bed at lunch time because she said there was nothing else to do. Of course, she can go to school. I asked her how long her Mom was going to continue the punishment and she said she didn't know! Her Mom told me that if she brings the phone to her house, she will smash it! At the moment the phone is at her Dad's and I have no idea if he intends to give it back.
From my 60 year old point of view, I would have thought that if her Dad, who she is very close to, just sat down with her and told her how disappointed he was with her -- that would be a far better incentive not to do it again, than a never ending "punishment". Does punishment work? I would have thought that it just make her resentful and would make her try harder the next time not to get found out!
Mind you - she pretty well does as she is told - she is pretty submissive - so maybe she will just put up with it.
Just wondering. I thought I might say something to my son and then I thought - maybe I just don't understand today's teenagers. Any comments?
Anyway, that was the Thursday before last. Since then she has had her phone taken away, she cannot use the computer, she cannot go out. Her Mom would not even let her go to the library with me. Saturday morning she was still in bed at lunch time because she said there was nothing else to do. Of course, she can go to school. I asked her how long her Mom was going to continue the punishment and she said she didn't know! Her Mom told me that if she brings the phone to her house, she will smash it! At the moment the phone is at her Dad's and I have no idea if he intends to give it back.
From my 60 year old point of view, I would have thought that if her Dad, who she is very close to, just sat down with her and told her how disappointed he was with her -- that would be a far better incentive not to do it again, than a never ending "punishment". Does punishment work? I would have thought that it just make her resentful and would make her try harder the next time not to get found out!
Mind you - she pretty well does as she is told - she is pretty submissive - so maybe she will just put up with it.
Just wondering. I thought I might say something to my son and then I thought - maybe I just don't understand today's teenagers. Any comments?
Last edited by Purley; Apr 14th 2008 at 5:06 am.
Apr 14th 2008, 7:25 am
#2
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Re: Does punishment work?
I can only consider things from the point of view of someone my age - which is understandable. My granddaughter did something stupid. It wasn't criminal - it was just sneaky and she knew very well it wasn't allowed.
Anyway, that was the Thursday before last. Since then she has had her phone taken away, she cannot use the computer, she cannot go out. Her Mom would not even let her go to the library with me. Saturday morning she was still in bed at lunch time because she said there was nothing else to do. Of course, she can go to school. I asked her how long her Mom was going to continue the punishment and she said she didn't know! Her Mom told me that if she brings the phone to her house, she will smash it! At the moment the phone is at her Dad's and I have no idea if he intends to give it back.
From my 60 year old point of view, I would have thought that if her Dad, who she is very close to, just sat down with her and told her how disappointed he was with her -- that would be a far better incentive not to do it again, than a never ending "punishment". Does punishment work? I would have thought that it just make her resentful and would make her try harder the next time not to get found out!
Mind you - she pretty well does as she is told - she is pretty submissive - so maybe she will just put up with it.
Just wondering. I thought I might say something to my son and then I thought - maybe I just don't understand today's teenagers. Any comments?
Anyway, that was the Thursday before last. Since then she has had her phone taken away, she cannot use the computer, she cannot go out. Her Mom would not even let her go to the library with me. Saturday morning she was still in bed at lunch time because she said there was nothing else to do. Of course, she can go to school. I asked her how long her Mom was going to continue the punishment and she said she didn't know! Her Mom told me that if she brings the phone to her house, she will smash it! At the moment the phone is at her Dad's and I have no idea if he intends to give it back.
From my 60 year old point of view, I would have thought that if her Dad, who she is very close to, just sat down with her and told her how disappointed he was with her -- that would be a far better incentive not to do it again, than a never ending "punishment". Does punishment work? I would have thought that it just make her resentful and would make her try harder the next time not to get found out!
Mind you - she pretty well does as she is told - she is pretty submissive - so maybe she will just put up with it.
Just wondering. I thought I might say something to my son and then I thought - maybe I just don't understand today's teenagers. Any comments?
Hope it gets sorted out, have you asked your son how long this is going to continue ?
Apr 14th 2008, 12:46 pm
#3
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Re: Does punishment work?
She had a boy over at her dad's one afternoon when he was at work.
Like I said, I can only look on situations from 60 plus years of experience. I think that as she is almost 15, she is going to be getting more and more independent and I would have thought she needed to be taught to make good decisions when she isn't supervised, because this is going to be happening more and more the older she gets. I also would have thought that a teenager should know that if they have a problem a parent while not overly pleased would at least listen reasonably - if I was a teenager and I knew a parent was going to overreact and go ballistic - I think they would be the last person I went to if I had a problem.
Like I said, I can only look on situations from 60 plus years of experience. I think that as she is almost 15, she is going to be getting more and more independent and I would have thought she needed to be taught to make good decisions when she isn't supervised, because this is going to be happening more and more the older she gets. I also would have thought that a teenager should know that if they have a problem a parent while not overly pleased would at least listen reasonably - if I was a teenager and I knew a parent was going to overreact and go ballistic - I think they would be the last person I went to if I had a problem.
Apr 14th 2008, 1:40 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
She had a boy over at her dad's one afternoon when he was at work.
Like I said, I can only look on situations from 60 plus years of experience. I think that as she is almost 15, she is going to be getting more and more independent and I would have thought she needed to be taught to make good decisions when she isn't supervised, because this is going to be happening more and more the older she gets. I also would have thought that a teenager should know that if they have a problem a parent while not overly pleased would at least listen reasonably - if I was a teenager and I knew a parent was going to overreact and go ballistic - I think they would be the last person I went to if I had a problem.
Like I said, I can only look on situations from 60 plus years of experience. I think that as she is almost 15, she is going to be getting more and more independent and I would have thought she needed to be taught to make good decisions when she isn't supervised, because this is going to be happening more and more the older she gets. I also would have thought that a teenager should know that if they have a problem a parent while not overly pleased would at least listen reasonably - if I was a teenager and I knew a parent was going to overreact and go ballistic - I think they would be the last person I went to if I had a problem.
if it is straightforward friendship then i think they have over reacted, like you said she won't go to them if there is a real problem,
I have an 18 year old daughter and trust her judgment she has had friends here male and female for years even stop in the same room and no i am not being blind here,
The way i look at it is if she is going to do drugs or have sex then she will do it anyway, i would be more concerned with making sure she is aware of looking after herself and making the right decisions in life, i have told my daughter who now has a steady boyfriend she has to live with any consequences of her actions.
Poor thing i dread to think what there reaction would be if she got into serious trouble, hope she is back on line and gets her phone back soon, at least she has you
have you talked to her about why her parents are so upset ?
Apr 14th 2008, 1:42 pm
#5
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Re: Does punishment work?
Punishment does work, but this is the wrong way to do it. There need to be CLEAR consequences for inappropriate action, not some open ended thing.
You wouldn't put a little kid in "time out" for a non specified period, and neither should you ground a teenager indefinitely. Who's the adult here, cos the mum is behaving like a spiteful child.
You wouldn't put a little kid in "time out" for a non specified period, and neither should you ground a teenager indefinitely. Who's the adult here, cos the mum is behaving like a spiteful child.
Apr 14th 2008, 1:52 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
[else to do. Of course, she can go to school. I asked her how long her Mom was going to continue the punishment and she said she didn't know! Her Mom told me that if she brings the phone to her house, she will smash it!
Sorry, but how immature of a mother to say that to her daughter. A sit down talk with her child would be much more productive where conversation can flow and trust and expectations can be established . I am sorry to pass judgement , but after reading several posts regarding your granddaughters mother, she is acting like a spiteful b*** and she should be ashamed of herself and the way she treats her poor child. She is not worthy of being a mother and .. sorry, getting a little worked up.
ok, I have a 15 year old . Granted, it ;s a boy but I also have a nearly 14 year old girl so I will try and put your situation into my terms.
I live in a large apartment complex where there are TONS of kids who for the most part , all go to school together and come home together. So , it is very common for me to come home to find my kids with their friends of the opposite sex in my home . There might be a bunch of them or just 1 of the same or opposite sex .But, they are honestly not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell. When I walk in, they are either on the computer, watching TV or doing homework together. Also, atleast they are home and I know wher they are.
Has your granddaughter ever done anything to make her parents not trust her? Even at that, I believe their reaction to be extreme and phychologically damaging in the long run.
If however, I walked in and found my son or daughter in a comprimizing situation I would just talk to them and keep more of an eye on them. But to punish them for just being at a friends house as your grand daughter is being seems rather extreme to me. Also, to drag it on and on makes me feel quite sad for her. In the long run , it could lead to depression.
Thank God you are around Liz. I would have a talk with your son if I were you. You are right, if this keeps up, the last people your granddaughter will end up speaking to when she is in a piddle is her parents.
I hope everything works out for the best.
Sarah
Sorry, but how immature of a mother to say that to her daughter. A sit down talk with her child would be much more productive where conversation can flow and trust and expectations can be established . I am sorry to pass judgement , but after reading several posts regarding your granddaughters mother, she is acting like a spiteful b*** and she should be ashamed of herself and the way she treats her poor child. She is not worthy of being a mother and .. sorry, getting a little worked up.
ok, I have a 15 year old . Granted, it ;s a boy but I also have a nearly 14 year old girl so I will try and put your situation into my terms.
I live in a large apartment complex where there are TONS of kids who for the most part , all go to school together and come home together. So , it is very common for me to come home to find my kids with their friends of the opposite sex in my home . There might be a bunch of them or just 1 of the same or opposite sex .But, they are honestly not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell. When I walk in, they are either on the computer, watching TV or doing homework together. Also, atleast they are home and I know wher they are.
Has your granddaughter ever done anything to make her parents not trust her? Even at that, I believe their reaction to be extreme and phychologically damaging in the long run.
If however, I walked in and found my son or daughter in a comprimizing situation I would just talk to them and keep more of an eye on them. But to punish them for just being at a friends house as your grand daughter is being seems rather extreme to me. Also, to drag it on and on makes me feel quite sad for her. In the long run , it could lead to depression.
Thank God you are around Liz. I would have a talk with your son if I were you. You are right, if this keeps up, the last people your granddaughter will end up speaking to when she is in a piddle is her parents.
I hope everything works out for the best.
Sarah
Last edited by zalaben; Apr 14th 2008 at 1:57 pm. Reason: typo
Apr 14th 2008, 1:57 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
Punishment does work, but this is the wrong way to do it. There need to be CLEAR consequences for inappropriate action, not some open ended thing.
You wouldn't put a little kid in "time out" for a non specified period, and neither should you ground a teenager indefinitely. Who's the adult here, cos the mum is behaving like a spiteful child.
You wouldn't put a little kid in "time out" for a non specified period, and neither should you ground a teenager indefinitely. Who's the adult here, cos the mum is behaving like a spiteful child.
Unless i am missing something here has she actually done anything to be punished for, is she not allowed friends home if not why not ?
As for her mother threatening to smash her phone thats just ridiculous
Apr 14th 2008, 2:14 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
We had a situation this weekend, where my 13 year old blantently disobeyed me. I told her to be home by 3pm, she tried to push it 'till 3:30pm but I said no she has to be back by 3pm (I'm fed up with her always trying to push it a bit further so I stuck to my guns). I was out shopping when she rolled in at 3:30pm. Her Dad asked why she was late and straight away she lied (which we are also fed up with - the silly lies) and shouted that she was on time. She is now grounded - no t.v. no computer until next Sunday.
We have tried everything else - the reasoning, the explaining etc, etc. Enough is enough, she's driving us mad, she is so rude and sulky with us all the time it's just a nightmare to live with. BUT she is a good kid - with other people!
So Liz, while your grandaughter may be lovely with you, maybe she just pushes her limits with her parents too far all the time. I would not be happy if my daughter had a boy in the house when we were not in if we had strictly said it was not to happen. My daughter is not allowed ANY friends in the house if we are not home but then she is only 13.
We have tried everything else - the reasoning, the explaining etc, etc. Enough is enough, she's driving us mad, she is so rude and sulky with us all the time it's just a nightmare to live with. BUT she is a good kid - with other people!
So Liz, while your grandaughter may be lovely with you, maybe she just pushes her limits with her parents too far all the time. I would not be happy if my daughter had a boy in the house when we were not in if we had strictly said it was not to happen. My daughter is not allowed ANY friends in the house if we are not home but then she is only 13.
Apr 14th 2008, 2:28 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
Yes, punishment works - if it is constructive & rational.
I feel for this girl (assuming there was nothing out of order & potentially life-wrecking going on!)
I was not allowed friends full stop, let alone friends to visit at the house!
The result? I left the offending persons home on my 18th birthday & never once looked back. The best revenge is to be blissfully happy......without said offending parent
I realise this may sound harsh - but that's life.
I don't believe the saying...."You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family". As far as I'm concerned you can choose whoever you like to be in your life, I choose one parent only - these folk need to be careful!
I feel for this girl (assuming there was nothing out of order & potentially life-wrecking going on!)
I was not allowed friends full stop, let alone friends to visit at the house!
The result? I left the offending persons home on my 18th birthday & never once looked back. The best revenge is to be blissfully happy......without said offending parent
I realise this may sound harsh - but that's life.I don't believe the saying...."You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family". As far as I'm concerned you can choose whoever you like to be in your life, I choose one parent only - these folk need to be careful!
Apr 14th 2008, 3:26 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
There may be other things happening as piff poff said, and this incident may be the straw that broke the camels back.
What is really important however, for you daughter and her mum, is that she doesn't have the opportunity to play one off against the other.
My mother used to do this all the time with my son as she felt he was wonderful and could do no wrong. Any time I said anything critical or punished him for wrong doing she just spoiled him more.
It was a really difficult time and caused resentment all round. He is now older and she realizes that she was wrong and couldn't see it at the time.
You may disagree with the punishment, but you are not her mother and you don't have to deal with her all the time. If you disagree with something, have a chat to the Mum in a not judgmental way when your granddaughter is out of the way. You help and support with your granddaughter may well be appreciated more than your criticism.
What is really important however, for you daughter and her mum, is that she doesn't have the opportunity to play one off against the other.
My mother used to do this all the time with my son as she felt he was wonderful and could do no wrong. Any time I said anything critical or punished him for wrong doing she just spoiled him more.
It was a really difficult time and caused resentment all round. He is now older and she realizes that she was wrong and couldn't see it at the time.
You may disagree with the punishment, but you are not her mother and you don't have to deal with her all the time. If you disagree with something, have a chat to the Mum in a not judgmental way when your granddaughter is out of the way. You help and support with your granddaughter may well be appreciated more than your criticism.
Apr 14th 2008, 3:43 pm
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Re: Does punishment work?
The event may be innocent but if she has been sneaky as you say then she knows she's done something either parent would not approve of so she needs to be punished; but it should not be an open ended punishment because, as you write, that is were the resentment starts. This one event could escalate into her playing all the adults in her life against each other making them resentful and it may escalate into more. So punishment yes, but more importantly finding out where she is on the boys as friend scale and talking awareness and consequences.
Maybe making her come to the faggots and peas supper would be the best punishment you can give
Maybe making her come to the faggots and peas supper would be the best punishment you can give
Apr 14th 2008, 4:14 pm
#12
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Re: Does punishment work?
The event may be innocent but if she has been sneaky as you say then she knows she's done something either parent would not approve of so she needs to be punished; but it should not be an open ended punishment because, as you write, that is were the resentment starts. This one event could escalate into her playing all the adults in her life against each other making them resentful and it may escalate into more. So punishment yes, but more importantly finding out where she is on the boys as friend scale and talking awareness and consequences.
Maybe making her come to the faggots and peas supper would be the best punishment you can give
Maybe making her come to the faggots and peas supper would be the best punishment you can give
Apr 14th 2008, 6:51 pm
#13
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Re: Does punishment work?
I would say not to interfere with the punishment ,if it has gone
far too long and becoming unreasonable then you raise your objection
to your son.
Is she allowed to visit you?How about encouraging her to do reading,
writing,gardening etc-back to the basic without the electronic bombardments.
I agree with zalaben that her mum is the problem with her immature behaviour and it must be hard for your granddaughter to live with
such a volatile person. Someone has to go and assess the home situation.
Just my humble opinion.
Yoong
far too long and becoming unreasonable then you raise your objection
to your son.
Is she allowed to visit you?How about encouraging her to do reading,
writing,gardening etc-back to the basic without the electronic bombardments.
I agree with zalaben that her mum is the problem with her immature behaviour and it must be hard for your granddaughter to live with
such a volatile person. Someone has to go and assess the home situation.
Just my humble opinion.
Yoong
Apr 14th 2008, 9:09 pm
#14
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Re: Does punishment work?
I have absolutely no problem with discipline. I am sure that the two of them were up to no particular good that afternoon! She tells me that it didn't go too far. And it probably didn't and I think the reaction was over the top for the crime.
I actually found this on the Internet - and I totally agree.
"Punishment doesn’t work with Teenagers - Discipline does!
In order to better understand the difference between discipline, and punishment lets evaluate them.
Disciplining is about teaching your teen right from wrong in a positive way with a definite emphasis on nurturing, and guidance. When disciplining a teen, you are relating to them, and how their misbehaviour has consequences. By doing this, you are teaching acceptance by self-discipline, and responsibility for their actions. If done right, discipline is a road map to future behaviour of your teen, without making them feel bad about themselves or you as their parent.
Punishment, on the other hand, relates to consequences that are created to control misbehaviour, which includes removing privileges, grounding, or withholding allowances. By punishing your teen, you may feel that you are in control of them, but it will only end in your teen finding new and creative ways to continue their bad behaviour. Punishment is also one of the major causes of rebellion in teenagers, further heightening the misdeed and punishment cycle."
It does go on - but I won't bother repeating the whole thing here. It does say that you should treat your teen like an adult-in-training and not a child.
My older son, when I discussed the situation with him, said you can't control teenagers by force - the older they get - the more independent they get - and its your responsibility to teach them to make good decisions when they aren't supervised.
And yes, I have talked about her mother before. My son said when his daughter was little that her mother liked having her because it gave her someone to boss around!! Her "discipline" when my granddaughter was a toddler equally over the top - she put Tabasco sauce in the kid's mouth if she said a "swear". But that ended the day she tried to use the Tabasco and my granddaughter fought back and the Tabasco ended up in her eye!! At which point she yelled for my son -- he washed his daughter's eye out and threw the Tabasco bottle at the wall and smashed it and told her he'd better not see it in the house again.
What p**ses me off at the moment is that my son - having dealt with this woman for 15 years - seems to have had some kind of a brain storm and appears to be going along with her stupid ideas!
I actually found this on the Internet - and I totally agree.
"Punishment doesn’t work with Teenagers - Discipline does!
In order to better understand the difference between discipline, and punishment lets evaluate them.
Disciplining is about teaching your teen right from wrong in a positive way with a definite emphasis on nurturing, and guidance. When disciplining a teen, you are relating to them, and how their misbehaviour has consequences. By doing this, you are teaching acceptance by self-discipline, and responsibility for their actions. If done right, discipline is a road map to future behaviour of your teen, without making them feel bad about themselves or you as their parent.
Punishment, on the other hand, relates to consequences that are created to control misbehaviour, which includes removing privileges, grounding, or withholding allowances. By punishing your teen, you may feel that you are in control of them, but it will only end in your teen finding new and creative ways to continue their bad behaviour. Punishment is also one of the major causes of rebellion in teenagers, further heightening the misdeed and punishment cycle."
It does go on - but I won't bother repeating the whole thing here. It does say that you should treat your teen like an adult-in-training and not a child.
My older son, when I discussed the situation with him, said you can't control teenagers by force - the older they get - the more independent they get - and its your responsibility to teach them to make good decisions when they aren't supervised.
And yes, I have talked about her mother before. My son said when his daughter was little that her mother liked having her because it gave her someone to boss around!! Her "discipline" when my granddaughter was a toddler equally over the top - she put Tabasco sauce in the kid's mouth if she said a "swear". But that ended the day she tried to use the Tabasco and my granddaughter fought back and the Tabasco ended up in her eye!! At which point she yelled for my son -- he washed his daughter's eye out and threw the Tabasco bottle at the wall and smashed it and told her he'd better not see it in the house again.
What p**ses me off at the moment is that my son - having dealt with this woman for 15 years - seems to have had some kind of a brain storm and appears to be going along with her stupid ideas!
Apr 14th 2008, 9:48 pm
#15
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Re: Does punishment work?
WEll here's my 2 penneth worth.
My daughter is 13 - just turned in Feb. Later in the month (feb) when it was half term, she asked if her and her friends could go to LOndon for a day, hubby and I had a chat and as it was a day that I couldnt easily get up to town we said no - we said that if me or one of thf riends mums was up there - maybe in Covent Garden and they used that as a central point then maybe they could next month or whenever they were all getting to gether!
so that week she stayed over at said friends house and told me they were going to the nearby town for some shopping - all ok.
when she came home the next day I asked if she had a good time and then she said well actualy I better tell you - we went to LOndon !!
Was driving at the time so couldnt go ballistic at her and also thought - well she has admitted it!!
that was a friday so hubby and I decided to ground her for the weekend - explaining that we had said no adn that we would have had no idea where she was if she had disappeared etcc.
she had a bit of a hissy fit as she was meant to go to a party that weekend but she bit the bullet!
BUT - the twins didnt tell - I mentioned it to their mum- my friend - she said she thought it was odd that they had harrods carrier bags etc..
she sat them down and asked of there was anything they wanted to tell her about the day before - NO they said - she told them she knew and they were grounded for the week and no pc or phones - as they had continued to lie!!
My daughter is 13 - just turned in Feb. Later in the month (feb) when it was half term, she asked if her and her friends could go to LOndon for a day, hubby and I had a chat and as it was a day that I couldnt easily get up to town we said no - we said that if me or one of thf riends mums was up there - maybe in Covent Garden and they used that as a central point then maybe they could next month or whenever they were all getting to gether!
so that week she stayed over at said friends house and told me they were going to the nearby town for some shopping - all ok.
when she came home the next day I asked if she had a good time and then she said well actualy I better tell you - we went to LOndon !!
Was driving at the time so couldnt go ballistic at her and also thought - well she has admitted it!!
that was a friday so hubby and I decided to ground her for the weekend - explaining that we had said no adn that we would have had no idea where she was if she had disappeared etcc.
she had a bit of a hissy fit as she was meant to go to a party that weekend but she bit the bullet!
BUT - the twins didnt tell - I mentioned it to their mum- my friend - she said she thought it was odd that they had harrods carrier bags etc..
she sat them down and asked of there was anything they wanted to tell her about the day before - NO they said - she told them she knew and they were grounded for the week and no pc or phones - as they had continued to lie!!