Re: Coronavirus
 

the issue is that PPE is at the bottom of the hazard control hierarchy and is always considered a last line of defence. In of itself it never provides sufficient control and is absolutely not a substitute for socially distancing. I believe the reluctance to mandate their use is based on the following:
- leads to false sense of security in wearer
- requires discipline of the user (most the public is not trained or have built up the required long term habits needed to properly use PPE)
- could be seen as a short cut to ‘normal’ and encourages laziness especially by businesses.i.e. It’s ok
to have a 100 people in my store because they are wearing masks.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It is beneficial, that’s why Toronto and surrounding districts are pushing a bill through to make masks wearing mandatory.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would think if Covid has taught us anything it is that just because a government / government agency says something it doesn’t mean it is true or even accurate.

Re: Coronavirus
 

​​​​​​If infection rates increase, that may well happen. I think some US cities are considering it presently.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You need a strong and simple analogy to get through to people. Anti-vaxing is certainly a problem of a similar nature.

Re: Coronavirus
 

the medical profession seem to think masks will help prevent the spread. :nod:

Re: Coronavirus
 

After three months of Corona crisis the boredom started to settle in for me. One is simply tired of ever changing rules and regulations when going out, even if it's about a bit of relaxation and in the end, one prefers to stay home and not do much. No job or income in sight, stranded in a foreign country, but enough money to keep going for a while, and also not really a lot of motivation because of this pandemic. Theoretically I should have moved to Canada by now, however the 14 day isolation is just no option. So it's waiting, waiting and waiting.......

Also, the feeling is not there that "we're all in this together". It's more like the feeling, "none have understanding for the other's problems" and "everyone is caught in a different situation" these days......

Even worse this new "un-normal" could be going on for years and years.....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Masks are mandatory in a variety of places in the US, some at state level, some at county level, some at city level, but people are still not bothering, and in some states like California where the governor has made masks mandatory there is push back with some Sheriff's saying they will not enforce the mandatory mask order.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...rs-coronavirus

Of course the Sheriff is an elected law enforcement position, so unlike say a City Chief of Police who can be fired easily for not following orders, the Sheriff cannot be fired so easily since they are elected official just like politicians, and essentially a Sheriff is just a politician who happens to be a cop.

The general population also in general isn't all that cooperative which doesn't help.

I think Washington State has also made masks mandatory but facing similiar backlash from the general population.

Masks are not mandatory in BC and its hit and miss as to how many have masks, and where you are, some areas have higher mask usage than other areas, but seems majority of people are not wearing masks correctly, so not sure how effective it is when the nose isn't covered.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/factsheets/no...uring-covid-19

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good to know, thanks. I guess if Joe Public doesn't want to listen to the experts, Mr Corona himself will have a word. It does seem that in the US, the time for delusion and wishful thinking is coming to an end.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes that and more pictures of what it is like living with the ongoing symptoms of the Covid19 disease that will never go away. Like never being able to draw a full breath of air into lungs again, incurable brain damage, nerve damage and even sepsis infection. Those images could be made into large posters on the sides of buses maybe. Whatever works to get people to be willing to do anything to not be contagious or infected.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We seem to be in a new phase now, the US has lost the option to control the virus through track and trace:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-...s-country.html

What if it's never safe to open the border?

Re: Coronavirus
 

:goodpost:

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the USA becomes the worlds COVID epicenter for the next year or so, it would be extremely foolish of Canada if we opened our border with them. I don't have any plans to go into the USA for the next decade or so. Build the big beautiful wall.

The EU has decided that from Wednesday EU borders will be reopened to citizens from 15 non-EU countries, including Canada, Morocco and Australia, but not the US, Brazil and Russia.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Political toxicity has been keeping me out for the past while, so that would have to be cleaned up as well as the virus to get my business back. The scandal stories about US border guards detaining Canadian housewives for no apparent reason are probably a couple of years old, but still troubling.

Re: Coronavirus
 

clearly not enough for those in Canada to make it mandatory in all circumstances. There is clearly some discussion in the field as to wether they help or hinder when viewed in a holistic way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yay!!! the bill has been passed. Mask up people. :thumbsup:

Re: Coronavirus
 

If that is true, are you able to explain why the federal and provincial governments have not made it mandatory? Are they acting negligently?

Re: Coronavirus
 

If this isn't enforced well (the article says it will focus more on education) then it could end up like it is in the states with Karen's getting publicly shamed, and then throwing a tantrum and leaving the store. I hope Torontonians are better than this.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/wh...licy-1.5006032

Re: Coronavirus
 

maybe more and more districts will follow...and the province may follow. I know several around Toronto are hoping to pass a similar bill.

I wonder why Dr Fauci in the US recommends wearing a mask? Doctors all over the world wear them...I wonder why?

having lived in the US for nearly 20 years...I do believe Canadians are let me say...more laid back than Americans. So hopefully we will not see many Karen’s.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Air Canada having to do some more cuts due to COVID reducing air travel demand.

30 domestic regional routes being cut, and they are closing 8 stations down completely and ending service.

8 stations closing are:

• Bathurst, N.B.
• Wabush, N.L.
• Gaspé, Que.
• Baie Comeau, Que.
• Mont Joli, Que.
• Val d'Or, Que.
• Kingston, Ont.
• North Bay, Ont.

Routes being cut:

• In Atlantic Canada: Deer Lake-Goose Bay, Deer Lake-St. John's, Fredericton-Halifax, Fredericton-Ottawa, Moncton-Halifax, Saint John-Halifax, Charlottetown-Halifax, Moncton-Ottawa, Gander-Goose Bay, Gander-St. John's, Bathurst-Montreal, Wabush-Goose Bay, Wabush-Sept-Iles, Goose Bay-St. John's.
• In Quebec: Baie Comeau-Montreal, Baie Comeau-Mont Joli, Gaspé-Iles de la Madeleine, Gaspé-Quebec City, Sept-Iles-Quebec City, Val d'Or-Montreal, Mont Joli-Montreal, Rouyn-Noranda-Val d'Or.
• In Ontario: Kingston-Toronto, London-Ottawa, North Bay-Toronto, Windsor-Montreal.
• In Western Canada: Regina-Winnipeg, Regina-Saskatoon, Regina-Ottawa, Saskatoon-Ottawa.

Air Canada doesn't expect air travel to recover for at least 3 years, and in the coming weeks to months more cuts will be considered to slow the cash burn rate, current cash burn rate is approx $22 million per day. March alone they burned through $688 million. System wide capacity in 2nd quarter was down 85% over 2019, and 3rd quarter they expect to be down by 75% compared to 2019.

More than 2/3 of the routes being cut are operated by Jazz under the Air Canada Express banner and all 8 stations being closed are Jazz stations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...cuts-1.5632874

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because they are exposed to close contact with multiple people in a single day or looking directly into your open body cavity during an operation. Also because they are employees of the medical service they work for and are therefore liable to their patients.

it’s a completely different risk profile to someone who may stand closer than 2, 3, 4 m (insert your best guess here) to someone for 30 seconds. Maybe we should all wear hard hats in cosco in case something falls off the shelf and hits us on the head. It’s a risk after all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's so if they screw up you can't identify them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

OK I get it, you know better than all the health experts...or are you just argumentative? Either way, argue with yourself. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m going to sound like a broken record but all the medical experts don’t agree or it would be mandatory. Sounds like you only want to hear what’s in your echo chamber right now.

BTW I have over 12 years experience in health and safety risk assessments for the mining and construction industry. So yes I know a little more than the average person about the assessment of risk and implantation of meaningful controls to control said risk.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Speaking of "completely different risk profiles" transmission of Coronavirus between non-masked individuals over the course of a day is far more likely than an object falling from Costco. These kind of false analogies are unhelpful, because persuade people to make the wrong choices.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So am I if I go to the supermarket or pharmacy. With the added disadvantage that I have no idea whether other people are infectious whereas the doctor at least has a pretty good idea that the person they are seeing is ill and possibly they even know what's wrong with them.
Does that object falling on your head hurt me and others too? It's about the benefits to the many, not just the few. Or the one.

(Hey, I was able to use a line from Star Trek without it sounding the least contrived) :lol:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I say its closed for at least 6 more months to maybe a year at least.

Well its never been closed, I should say the restrictions on non-essential travel will remain in place.

I don't see them actually closing the border as in nobody can cross.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seems in the fall we may be required to wear a mask, BC seems to be taking the get people used to the idea, make it seem like they have a choice, and then eventually mandate it approach, but hey seems to be working slowly but surely, our case numbers are still stable and fairly low so there isn't a rush to mandate masks, but hints are there a mandate could happen.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...asks-1.5633657

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hmmmmm think I will take this guy’s advice, over your 12 years experience and he says wearing masks prevents the spread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci

Now I really will leave you to argue with yourself. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

If masks had to be implanted I'd be against them too ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Happy Canada Day everyone;


🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨ðŸ� ��¦

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's America but...

If more Americans wore masks the pandemic would slow, experts say
Maybe the air is different up here or there's something unusual about the way we exhale, sneeze and cough. :rolleyes: Or does mask wearing actually make sense? :nod:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's worse than that he's dead Jim, dead Jim, dead!

Re: Coronavirus
 

At least Dr McCoy was masked up :thumbup:

Re: Coronavirus
 

:goodpost: Good points, both of them, and you're not even a risk professional! :lol:

I was about to make the second point myself, that if something falls on you at Costco, it doesn't put your elderly parents at risk when you visit them next weekend, nor does it put your colleagues at risk in your office or factory when you return to work, or customers/ clients if you work in a service industry. I would argue that experience assessing risk in an industrial setting puts Engineer_Abroad at a disadvanage in assessing pandemic risk, because the causes (visible/ measureable threat v non-visible/ unknown threat, and that could be caused by a visitor to the location, not by something falling from the racking or by a piece of machinery), and results (injury at a specific location at a single time v onward spread to an unknown number of future victims) are totally different.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed, it's the "I could get hit by a bus" analogy. Totally, irrelevant to a pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the other hand that bus might send you to your grave or ICU without endangering anyone else. :rofl:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just noticed, even your avatar is wearing a mask. :lol:

Re: Coronavirus
 

In olden days, pre corona, we medical professionals used to wear regukar masks to protect the parient from us and n95 masks to protect ourselves from the patient. Patients and visitors were asked to wear a mask if they had a cough or cold. Proven infection control measures. Why do some of you think it's any different now when it's even more important?

Re: Coronavirus
 

:goodpost: