Just putting the other professions/ jobs aside as I don't have any useful experience in these, in nursing I agree that progression is not done on merit and ability as it is in the UK (which is also unionised)

There are a lot of poor nurses who progress because of time served and the talented ambitious, incredibly able nurses don't get the jobs because of the system, and indeed the patients suffer. The latter group would potentially specialise, maybe train as nurse practitioners and break the stupid Canadian mentality of a health system which ridiculously doctor centric.

For a long time we worked in multidisciplinary teams where care was dispersed to those competent to do it, be it NPs, Practice nurses, Health care assistants etc
The 'experienced' / time served plodders have no intention of broadening their experience/ role.

In a similar vein, Mrs AX has been working long enough to gain the all important seniority. Lack of it, and a complete refusal to acknowledge the benefit or validity of any experience gained outside of the school district meant it took her 6 years to get a permanent, tenured position. Of course, once one has seniority, all is good.

Couldn't agree more. The problem also extends to the younger, less senior nurses who have to take crappy shifts and less attractive holiday schedules because the more senior nurses get first dibs. An argument I used to have with my MiL, a now retired nurse. She expected to get her choice of holiday, despite having grown up kids and not really needing to take it during school holidays. A less senior nurse with a young family who would better benefit from taking vacation during holidays has to make do with what's left. Scarcely a way to entice good people into the profession.

On the other hand, the reverse means those having kids get the choice and the person with seniority makes do with what's left which doesn't encourage good, trained, experience people to stay.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't?

There's one aspect of employment that's factual and that's seniority.

Everyone can't have the same best dates as leave. Is there a better, more factual deciding factor?

For vacation & days off, seniority is the best way to go in my view.

People with kids should not get preferential treatment for time off just because they have kids.

I had to work hard to become mediocre. You are a natural at it.

Incidentally, I have just secured one of those unionized positions here in Calgary, pays very well, plenty of benefits, 30 seconds from the c-train, delighted that the employer recognizes my mediocre talent.

Leads to resentment, selfishness and a lack of goal congruence. Those that have been promoted above their level of competence hold the reins of power and overall the customer and other employees suffer.

As regard to popularity, be a team player and in my experience, you are highly regarded and the business thrives. Now family connections....that is another crock of....

Seniority in nursing in Toronto works oddly. So long as a nurse does one shift a year that nurse is credited with the year's seniority. My daughter, who has taken years off work to gain new qualifications and who has moved countries multiple times, is still nominally an employee and union member in Toronto. She's moving up the vacation selection list. This would be terribly unfair except that it's usual; very many people with more seniority are actually resident elsewhere and are just keeping an option open. If they all came back there'd be chaos.

Several:

• First come first served.
• Mutual agreement
• Lottery if multiple people want the same dates

When I didn't have kids I actually preferred to take time off outside of the school holidays. Granted thats more difficult with the extended summer break in Canada, and granted we all want to take advantage of the short summers (at least here in Nfld we do!) but it can all be resolved IMHO without resorting to the "I've more seniority than you so yah boo sucks" approach enshrined in union contracts. The only purpose and benefit of seniority should be in earning additional vacation after x years service and in the event of redundancies assuring last in first out.

There was a similar loophole in NS or NB teacher contracts I believe with respect to taking additional education to move up the payscale. One could take some short, vocational course & that would bump you up the payscale rather than doing a masters or other post graduate course to broaden and deepen your skills. Here Mrs AX spent 2 years doing a Masters and got a pay bump. (Of course in the private sector I got zip for completing an MBA albeit my employers did fund it)

Form a queue outside the manager's door to get in first? Be one of the favourites who gets to hear when the first time one can apply will be and therefore get favourable treatment?
It's not exactly transparent.
Certainly that can work, and seniority doesn't exclude it being a factor so it's not actually an alternative.
If you don't get the mutual agreement when there's a clash of dates, you need a tie-breaker.
Yes, that can work too. How do you feel, though, if you are the the experienced, loyal employee and you lose the lottery each year to some young whippersnapper only with the company three months?
Don't you feel you should have some kind of recognition of service?

Perhaps it's different when you're in an industry or business where that can be rewarded in other ways like better pay, bonuses or benefits.

But if you're in, say, the public sector that's not possible.
Yep. I used to take mine before and after. Two fortnights away when the weather was still great cost the same price as one in season

I worked xmas too with minimum time off. It was mostly quiet and time could be taken off when it was busier.

How it worked in my 30+ years.....

Up goes the grid with the dates on, people have a week or two to reserve their preferred dates. It's accepted there's a maximum of X, Y or Z absences in whatever grade/position.

There's your element of first come first served but with nobody gaining an advantage.
If there's no clash that can't be covered then it's all done.

If someone more senior comes along later and wants some leave where there's already a maximum with it, then they don't get it.

Is this perhaps where there's a difference in systemsn, as if the more senior gets priority no matter what?

If there's a clash and the two or more people resolve it, great.

If not, then the deciding factor is seniority. That's fair, everyone knows where they stand and everyone knows they'll eventually get to that position where, if needed, they will benefit. It's an advantage in staying on.

But perhaps the feeling against seniority so often expressed on this forum is because the way they see it working is those with more seniority always getting first pick of dates.

In which case I'd be against it too. But it doesn't have to be that way.

I know plenty of people who consider teaching as highly regarded and generally very well paid when you consider the holiday time teachers get in Canada.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle6015968/ this article is a real eye opener

Many of my former teachers in high school are on the "sunshine list" of individuals earning 100k or more a year. I don't think that's a salary teachers in the uk are ever paid.

I have a friend who works for Public Health Alberta as a RN and makes $45/hr she started at 35/hr. These are salaries that are unheard of for nurses in the UK unless they complete some form of master's level training (even then it is unheard of).

Individuals who work for the government (municipal, provincial or federal) no matter in what capacity generally get better vacation time, pay and pension then their private sector counterparts

https://hreapp.hamilton.ca/psc/hr92e...on=U&SiteId=1& look at this job posting for a cook at long term care facilities that are government funded. $26-30/hr. Now I'm sure there is no one in the UK paying a basic cook £16or more/hr.

I got lasik eye surgery in Canada and the surgeon told me if I had worked for the Simcoe School Board their extended healthcare benefits would have covered the cost of my surgery.

I never found holiday time a huge issue when I worked in Ontario. I worked 4s and 5s, 4 12 hour shifts and then 5 days off. I had generally good rapport with my co-workers so they would switch shifts with me when I needed and they did the same for me.

Sometimes I would a whole week off without even booking time off due to switches.

Of course I do not have children so I don't mind being flexible.

The days of low-paid teachers are long gone, not only in Canada but elsewhere. Teachers are not wealthy but certainly do well, and in Canada, Australia, and the US, do better than the UK (ranging from somewhat better to a lot better).

There was a time, not terribly long ago, when pay (particularly for new teachers) was horrible.

The holidays are compensation for the 60-70 hour work weeks.

https://getintoteaching.education.go...acher-salaries
these rates are pretty low compared to the article I posted. Most people work that many hours a week, a doctor works on-call, nights and odd shifts. Lawyer's take their work home all the time, and business owners work around the clock. It's not usual to work 50+ hours a week if you include the amount of time most people work from home answering calls and emails.

My salary drop from a nurse in Canada to the UK was tremendous and to be honest quite insulting really