BristolUK

Surely with one comes the other.
If you're highly regarded you get better terms and conditions.

Yorkiechef

I hope this is not out of context, but if it is unionized, no you don't.

BristolUK

Not sure what you mean by out of context but if unionised you're probably not highly regarded.

Atlantic Xpat

Oink not trying to be overly contentious? That's a first....

I said "more highly regarded" I think. Mrs AX's experiences as a primary school teacher in the early noughties in London & Essexshire inform her opinion. Generally it seemed that teaching as a profession wasn't particularly well regarded. Her experience back in Newfoundland is somewhat different. (Although inner city London & downtown St John's are somewhat different environments, I do grant you!). Of course there are individual parents on both sides of the Atlantic that have poor opinions of teachers but the general societal view of the profession was what I was getting at. Is it important? Dunno YMMV as they say.

Atlantic Xpat

Quite. Teaching is one of those professions - nursing being another - where, in Canada at least, being good at your job is not a requirement for success & continued employment, but seniority is. Or to put it another way, you can be bad at your job but with seniority and union support, not suffer any adverse consequences.

Yorkiechef

Nursing. Agreed as it is advancement by seniority, not by ability. The easier jobs and the charge hand jobs go to those that have been around long enough to claim them by default.

Shocking!

Atlantic Xpat

And of course it's a profession where you don't want the best ability person with their hands in your life, you want the one with most seniority...

scrubbedexpat091

Unions make the work environment fairer at least.

Too many companies promote based on popularity and less on ability and how well one does their job, you can be the best at your job but not popular and never move up because other employees are more popular with management.

bats

So true, for any job in a hospital as I know only too well.

Atlantic Xpat

Fairer how? Promotion, when you can take vacation, choice of shifts, overtime etc are based on seniority. Not ability. Not popularity. Not ability. Fair if you have the seniority. Crap if you don't.

scrubbedexpat091

In the fact the company/employer cannot play popularity games and favoritism in promotions/vacations etc which is pretty common from my experience where I have worked over the years.

Where I have worked ability wasn't a huge factor in promotions, the most popular or management favorites got the promotions even if they were not the best workers, but they were part of the in crowd with management so got the better jobs, that won't happen in a seniority based system.

Yorkiechef

Fortunately someone close to me has been given her seniority for UK and therefore has 10 years seniority to lever her way into the organization, enable vacation of her choosing and a salary that reflects her skill and ability.

Yorkiechef

No what you get is mediocrity.

scrubbedexpat091

No.

You get a work environment where being the favorite or most popular gets you promotions, which is what happens in my experience with non union jobs.

Novocastrian

I assume that's how you got your job?