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Old Jul 5th 2017 | 6:06 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by BristolUK
A no caps lawyer in Vancouver who helps run unlearning oppression workshops. A home birth at a friend's. A non-binary transgender person who identifies as neither male nor female and refers to their baby as they.
I assume the parent also lives in Vancouver.

I know I shouldn't but I can't help wondering if they (the parent) is also vegan.

(I'm allowed to be non-PC once in a while)

Canadian baby given health card without sex designation - CNN.com
Mainstream veganism is surely too, well, mainstream. High-raw wholefoods plant-based, anybody?
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 7:52 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by sharkus
What's the deal with the no caps thing anyway?

Yes, I suspect the parent is vegan, and no doubt anti-vax too.
I suspect the lawyer has been waiting forever to be instructed by her first client.
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 8:06 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

I know somebody who has a 12 year old daughter...or did have anyway. Daughter of just 12 years old has now become her son. She returned to school in September 2016 as a boy. She/he didn't need to change her/his name as it was a unisex name.

When I was 12 years old I so desperately wished I could have been born a boy. So I dressed like one, had a masculine hairstyle and loved it when anybody called me "young man". I grew out of that.

I can't help but think this is just a phase my friends daughter/son is going through.
At the time she made this choice her Mom, my friend, was living with a woman who was changing to a man (sorry, didn't know how to put that). They've now split up and Mom is now in a relationship with a lesbian. When I first met my friend she was married to a man.
So is the child just trying to see what fits or maybe was she identifying as the person her mother was in a relationship with?
I don't believe 12 is old enough to know who you are...
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 12:57 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I suspect the lawyer has been waiting forever to be instructed by her first client.
Probably worried about committing a capital offence.
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 1:17 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Probably worried about committing a capital offence.
🤣🤣🤣
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 1:19 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by DandNHill
I know somebody who has a 12 year old daughter...or did have anyway. Daughter of just 12 years old has now become her son. She returned to school in September 2016 as a boy. She/he didn't need to change her/his name as it was a unisex name.

When I was 12 years old I so desperately wished I could have been born a boy. So I dressed like one, had a masculine hairstyle and loved it when anybody called me "young man". I grew out of that.

I can't help but think this is just a phase my friends daughter/son is going through.
At the time she made this choice her Mom, my friend, was living with a woman who was changing to a man (sorry, didn't know how to put that). They've now split up and Mom is now in a relationship with a lesbian. When I first met my friend she was married to a man.
So is the child just trying to see what fits or maybe was she identifying as the person her mother was in a relationship with?
I don't believe 12 is old enough to know who you are...
Is the child confused or is the child behaving in a way they know their parent will appreciate or does the child 'know' they are not female. So much confusion and puberty is shitty whatever gender you are. (Disclaimer, not asking you to answer those questions btw).

If the child in the article who is gender free (on paper) does go to school, do schools in Vancouver have unisex toilets or will the child have to make a decision about which toilet they feel best using and will the school agree? Whilst gender is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, in the small things it matters a lot and children only see the small picture. I see sadness/loneliness/depression in this child's future.
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 2:29 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Is the child confused or is the child behaving in a way they know their parent will appreciate or does the child 'know' they are not female. So much confusion and puberty is shitty whatever gender you are. (Disclaimer, not asking you to answer those questions btw).

If the child in the article who is gender free (on paper) does go to school, do schools in Vancouver have unisex toilets or will the child have to make a decision about which toilet they feel best using and will the school agree? Whilst gender is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, in the small things it matters a lot and children only see the small picture. I see sadness/loneliness/depression in this child's future.
I haven't seen the child for a while so I couldn't comment.

But I agree. This poor little thing will struggle to fit in to the "norms".
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 7:46 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by DandNHill
I know somebody who has a 12 year old daughter...or did have anyway. Daughter of just 12 years old has now become her son. She returned to school in September 2016 as a boy. She/he didn't need to change her/his name as it was a unisex name.

When I was 12 years old I so desperately wished I could have been born a boy. So I dressed like one, had a masculine hairstyle and loved it when anybody called me "young man". I grew out of that.

I can't help but think this is just a phase my friends daughter/son is going through.
At the time she made this choice her Mom, my friend, was living with a woman who was changing to a man (sorry, didn't know how to put that). They've now split up and Mom is now in a relationship with a lesbian. When I first met my friend she was married to a man.
So is the child just trying to see what fits or maybe was she identifying as the person her mother was in a relationship with?
I don't believe 12 is old enough to know who you are...

This is how I feel about the situation, going through puberty is a hormonal roller coaster with many trends and phases. There's also so many external influences and even more in modern times. I think most will agree they only truly knew who they were and had the confidence to be that person when they'd at least left school. It is such a drastic decision to take such steps at such a young age and potentially very damaging for the future.
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 7:59 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by DandNHill
I know somebody who has a 12 year old daughter...or did have anyway. Daughter of just 12 years old has now become her son. She returned to school in September 2016 as a boy. She/he didn't need to change her/his name as it was a unisex name.

When I was 12 years old I so desperately wished I could have been born a boy. So I dressed like one, had a masculine hairstyle and loved it when anybody called me "young man". I grew out of that.

I can't help but think this is just a phase my friends daughter/son is going through.
At the time she made this choice her Mom, my friend, was living with a woman who was changing to a man (sorry, didn't know how to put that). They've now split up and Mom is now in a relationship with a lesbian. When I first met my friend she was married to a man.
So is the child just trying to see what fits or maybe was she identifying as the person her mother was in a relationship with?
I don't believe 12 is old enough to know who you are...
Far too young, I agree.
I also wanted to be a boy when I was a kid -at about 9 years old I thought that the boy down the road was so cool, with his toy gun, and his tree climbing, and I wanted to be like him. By the time I was 11 I had got over it!

The family member I mentioned previously has transitioned from make to female. Started the treatment at about 20 years old. He said he had thought about it while still at school, but wanted to go to university first where he could dress and act openly as a woman and try it for size, so to speak. Turns out many uni friends have only ever known 'him' as a woman, never eealised he was male. So at least by the time it came to drugs and therapy and the op, he had a fair idea what he was getting into, although he is still quite immature and easily influenced in some ways. 'His' partner is female, transitioning to male, and had started in the road before they got together. That partner is a very much stronger character, and I wonder whether there will be regret further down the line. Did he jump or was he pushed.......
Even 20 seems young for such a huge decision, when you have not lived in the real world of work, but have just known school and uni. 12 is crazily young to make the whole transition, and as you say is quite probably hugely influenced by family relationships.
 
Old Jul 5th 2017 | 9:51 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

An ex of my daughter transitioned to a male at 21. At school she behaved, dressed as a lesbian girl. It wasn't until she left school that she decided she sbould be a guy so a very quick changeover. She was an unpleasant girl and is still a piece of shit as a guy but is a hot guy so has girls throwing themselves at him.
 
Old Jul 6th 2017 | 3:00 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
An ex of my daughter transitioned to a male at 21. At school she behaved, dressed as a lesbian girl. It wasn't until she left school that she decided she sbould be a guy so a very quick changeover. She was an unpleasant girl and is still a piece of shit as a guy but is a hot guy so has girls throwing themselves at him.
See that's to me another thing... if I fancied a guy and then found out he had transitioned from a girl, in all honesty I'm not sure I could pursue him any further.
Glad for the trans community that there is much less stigma than there used to be but I'm not sure I could be in a relationship with a transgender person. (Maybe it's just me)
 
Old Jul 6th 2017 | 7:51 pm
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by DandNHill
See that's to me another thing... if I fancied a guy and then found out he had transitioned from a girl, in all honesty I'm not sure I could pursue him any further.
Glad for the trans community that there is much less stigma than there used to be but I'm not sure I could be in a relationship with a transgender person. (Maybe it's just me)

I'm a very accepting person about pretty much anything as long as it doesn't negatively affect me. A guy I was friends with and used to train with recently transitioned to a woman, I was quite shocked but if that's what makes her happy then more power to them.
However, despite my acceptance I also feel like I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who was trans and the weird thing is I'm not actually sure what bothers me about it. I think it's because in my mind I can get my head around most things and find some understanding there. But with trans it is so alien to me that I struggle to understand it.
 
Old Jul 6th 2017 | 10:46 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by Shakyuk
I'm a very accepting person about pretty much anything as long as it doesn't negatively affect me. A guy I was friends with and used to train with recently transitioned to a woman, I was quite shocked but if that's what makes her happy then more power to them.
However, despite my acceptance I also feel like I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who was trans and the weird thing is I'm not actually sure what bothers me about it. I think it's because in my mind I can get my head around most things and find some understanding there. But with trans it is so alien to me that I struggle to understand it.
I think to me there would somehow be an element of wondering if I had become a lesbian and being uncomfortable with not understanding my own sexuality. I don't know, I'm confused!
 
Old Jul 6th 2017 | 10:54 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by DandNHill
...I'm not sure I could be in a relationship with a transgender person. (Maybe it's just me)
Originally Posted by Shakyuk
I'm a very accepting person...despite my acceptance I also feel like I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who was trans and the weird thing is I'm not actually sure what bothers me about it....
I worked with a guy who had the treatment and ops...last I heard it didn't go very well.

At work, we were all called in to the manager's office in groups and told about about his plans with him there as well.
It was good to see the immediate thought was little more than what did he want us to call him. He said the name he'd chosen and we all adopted it right away.

It would be interesting to see male/female thoughts on the idea of being in a relationship with someone who had changed.

In my experience women have generally been more accepting/supportive of a gay man than men have (but the gap has closed somewhat), so may similarly be more open to a relationship with a guy transitioned from a woman, than a guy would the other way.

I've met a few, via work, who transitioned male to female and, to be honest, they just looked like a man dressed as a woman.

To a bloke, that probably means they don't look easy on the eye and it may be a non starter.
 
Old Jul 6th 2017 | 11:46 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Canada Baby First Without Gender

Originally Posted by Shakyuk
I'm a very accepting person about pretty much anything as long as it doesn't negatively affect me. A guy I was friends with and used to train with recently transitioned to a woman, I was quite shocked but if that's what makes her happy then more power to them.
Weird sex I can deal with, even enjoy, grammatical atrocities not so much. This morning facebook told me that Bill Smith changed their profile picture, first I was shocked that Bill, of all people, had had his nuts cut off and then I wondered why that made him non-binary to the extent of being plural.
 

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