Attitudes that assist in migration
 

In the Wiki thread, flashman recommended the creation of a Wiki article on attitudes that would assist in migration and integration in a new country.

I think that's a great idea.

We all know (or at least I hope we know) that no amount of preparation and "right attitude" can guarantee that a person will settle happily in another country.

But there are attitudes that can go a long way towards smoothing the transition.

So, which attitudes do you think are helpful when you land in a new country?

This is by way of research for a new Wiki article.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

It helps to have an open minded attitude, and to accept that day to day things will be done differently.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

'Drop the ethnocentrism' was/is my own self-advice and likely advice I would give to people who migrate.

Anthropologist Wade Davis, has a quote which I like - actually I don't love the quote but the poster that I have that the quote on is very nice and it reminds me that "there is another world and it's within in this one" (I forget who said that). Anyway, the quote: "The world in which you were born is just one model of reality. Other cultures are not failed attempts at being you; they are unique manifestations of the human spirit."

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Oh! Most importantly, focus on having FUN!!! :thumbup:

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Once you get here, demonstrate a willingness to discuss subjects which may not be what you are used to or what you are initially interested in.

For example: when I arrived I really didn't like talking about horses - no interest at all. But so many people I met lived and breathed their horses that if I didn't find some interest in this subject, I would be struggling to start a conversation and would have to give up on getting to know these people better. As soon as I showed an interest, people opened up to me, introduced my son to riding, and I discovered that we did have other things in common after all. Some of my best friends are horse freaks!

Second example: my FIL recently visited. He is used to sitting in the pub discussing the woes of the world (namely politics, history (of Europe) etc) with any one who will listen - and in Dublin he can find many people to talk to about this. After his visit here he was very derogatory about the lack of interest people showed in the bars to discuss this stuff and generally accused them of having a very insular view. I pointed out that he had not asked them about the things that concerned them ie crops, livestock, land, real estate, hockey etc or about their views of history etc from their own location. If he'd started off talking to people about what concerned them in their daily lives - maybe the conversation could have evolved to other things over time. He also might have been surprised and gained an actual interest in some of these subjects he was so derogatory about.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

We crossed posted! These is very similar to the point I was trying to make with my examples! Cheers :thumbsup:

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

A lack of preconceptions is probably the most important thing

That and a willingness to accept the canadian way of going about things for what it is. You arent going to change it, so you might as well accept it.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

As a Brit in a former Empire dominion, you have a divine right to live here. As such, you should be afforded special privileges and not be treated the same as all the other filthy immigrants.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

This could shape up to be an interesting Wiki Judy. But stand by for one hundred different opinions ;) Here are mine !!

Be really, really honest with yourself! Look deep inside yourself first, and to your relationships and your (extended) family. I won't go all warm and fuzzy here, but I think this is fundamental. And sit quietly and honestly analyse your reasons. I think it possible that many people are 'running away' as opposed to 'running to' their preferred destination. As far as Canada is concerned, you really need to want to come here - in my opinion. I would equate it to those people who think a baby will solve all their relationship problems. They are so wrong. :p

I generally think it unwise to uproot families on a whim - most of the time the lengthy immigration process prevents that anyway. But occasionally, you do hear about people who are so surprised by an enormous amount of elements of their new home. They become bogged down and overwhelmed by all things different. If you've made it as far as reading this site or this thread, you already have an invaluable tool at your fingertips! Do your research, and visit, several times if possible. It's a big wide world out there - embrace what it has to offer, embrace who it has to offer. Don't bring a bucketfull of preconceived ideas about how things will be - be flexible and compromising. But if you know you are truly crap at being flexible and taking compromises, then please think again.

I'm not so specifically thinking about people who get transferred within their jobs (without too much choice), or those who just want to try somewhere else for a few years. I'm thinking more about those in their 30's, 40's and 50's who purposefully embark on a whole new chapter of their lives (most of the contributors to this site, I would say) - those who fundamentally move everything, anticipating it to be a pretty permanent move.

Accept, from the outset, that if things don't work out, you can go home again and it might simply boil down to being a very expensive experiment. Can you graciously shrug your shoulders and take it on the chin ? Be honest.

Homesickness is the one element that cannot so easily be analysed beforehand - and that is the huge emotional element that is hard to anticipate or quantify. And people have described it as crippling. Again, and this is just my thoughts, I think you can go someway to working out beforehand what or who may affect you though, then at least you won't be surprised if it hits, or hits hard. Are you really, really close to your parents, or do you see them occasionally, or under sufferance? Are they an integral part of your lives with daily/weekly visits and child-care? Is your brother your best mate? Is your best mate someone you've never been apart from for more than three weeks? Do you absolutely love your home town, even knowing the horrible parts? What do you fundamentally like doing with your time, given the choice? Is any of that available in your new home? I'm not saying that any or all of these things should prevent you from leaving - but you should weigh up the importance of this type of thing.

Again, my own opinion, those that run off into the distance shouting how much they hate the UK, everything has gone to the dogs, etc, are often those that return, eating their words. Actually, it wasn't so bad afterall. Those that head off, saying they like the UK, but want to try something new, are already more open-minded, and will most likely settle.

And finally, just accept that not everything will be perfect. How can it be? But if you anticipate finding a big swing in the old life-balance thing, and more importantly, you are lucky enough to actually find it when you get there, you are surely half way there ...

Nearly all of us have a wobbly, emotional farewell - it's normal. Others go skipping off the aeroplane, giggling like a demented cartoon character - that's normal too. Try and enjoy the whole experience but just accept that sometimes you will have a shit day. Don't let the shit days outweigh the good ones.

So - happy emigrating everyone :blink::rofl::thumbsup:

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Quite right. It's also the done thing to mutter 'Damn Colonials' under your breath when some Canadian chappie doesn't do it right.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

A fine sentiment... reminds me of whoever-it-is's prayer (I should probably google) - God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I cannot accept; and wisdom to know the difference between the two. It's one of the few pieces of (modern) churchy stuff I like.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Remember that you are in a new country, and do not anticipate or expect that everything will be the same as in the UK. If it was, there'd be no point in coming here. Accept and adapt, and enjoy.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

With coming to Canada, know that things will be the same but different.

I.e. the big things are similair, people still speak English (as long as your not in Quebec, but why would anyone go there anyway...), people like a beer and to talk about sport, schools, supermarkets, shops etc all exist.

But the differences are in the little things, like branding sure you can buy Pasta sauce but it's not Ragu, size of portions, Hockey is a religion, chips don't go well with vinegar and so on. Learn to accept and enjoy these little differences and you'll go a long way to settling in.

Also one of the better observations that I got when I first got over way back on University exchange was that the bigger shock can come when you head home for a visit. While you've been away you will have gone through big changes, experienced lots of things and so when you return there can be an expectation that others will have gone through similiar, but generally not much will have changed.

Finally know that the world is pretty small these days. Flights home are reasonably plentiful and Skype with a webcam is a cheap easy way to stay in touch.

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If you intend to uproot several kids and are going through a lengthy application process accept that whilst your life is on hold, theirs ISN'T.

The chances of a large family all wanting the same thing are not great and the more time that elapses the greater the chance that at least one person will have something in their life to make them not want to emigrate.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Unless that's exactly why you got the work permit and the job

then you have to realise that digging something out of a rut is a slow and often painful process and bloody frustrating most of the time

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

One thing that I think many should remember

it won't be much better than home, and it won't be much worse

but it will be different

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Above all, remember you are a visitor.
I've lived in many places away from my native Merseyside, including London, the Isle of Man, the USA and small town UK. In all cases ive got on OK because:
1. Ive got stuck in and served with local clubs (footy is my thing)
2. I've done my bit at work. Rarely sick, never slacking.
3. Always been diplomatic about my host country/province/town
4. Always appreciated what brought me to the place to begin with

If in doubt, I tend to ask myself the question:
If person "X" came to into my home and started laying the law down about what I should be doing, when I should do it, and how, my attitude would be simple:
"You don't like it - there's the door". Same rules apply when living away. Remember you are a guest in someone else's living room.


My single most important principle for success is this:

Try harder than the locals.

Get involved in social clubs. Do your bit. Stand up for what is right. Don't get involved in contraversial causes, especially local politics. You will gain a lot of friends and support that way. Most people, once they know you are "one of them" will stick up for you if/when there is a conflict.

Every now and then there WILL be a conflict where a local is angry at you due to a traffic bump/ kids/ lawnmower noise or whatever. If you are in the right the person will try to unload a bunch of cr4p onto you that has nothing to do with the subject matter of the dispute. When this starts happening they are bullying you. There are ways to deal with such bullying:

1. "Why dont you **** off back to (wherever)"
"I am just as entitled to live here as you. If you believe I am not then I suggest you call the police. Are you going to call the police?"

2. "Coming here scrounging"
"I play for the local team, I volunteer at the local club, I support the local group. What do you contribute?"

3. "Stealing our jobs"
"The job I have was advertised in the local job market and was open to all who applied. Did you apply? Why not?"

4. "Not even from Canada"
"Please say how where I come from has any bearing on this issue"
(The bully would I expect go to one of the above three phrases as a plan B)

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Hence Iain's infamous comment "Same shit shinier bucket".;):)

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

I always have my glass half full and a positive attitude, hence my username ;)

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Excellent post Ann!! You have hit the nail on the head so many times. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Karma to you :)

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Work is another country altogether isnt it.;)

I was refering to the absence of prawn cocktail crisps, the need to trade drivers licences and pay through the nose for insurance etc.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

What a great post Judy!

Ann - your reply was very good and very worth the read.

For me I'm not there yet, but I can say having lived in many different countries - including being a foreigner in the UK (I'm Canadian) I have experienced it from this way around.

I'm going back - but I'm

Not running away - More going to explore.
Happy to know that if it doesn't work out - I'm open to coming back.
Not overly close to family, brother lives in Houston and see him at most 1x year and I was sent to boarding school agede 12, so got my homesickness done mostly then!
Very eager to immerse myself in a new culture and environment
Prepared to know that 'living and working' will be much like the UK - it's not a holiday.
Be aware that it's not going to be a bed or roses but as much as I put in, I'll get out!!
Know that I'll have shit days, and day to day monotony to deal with.


Keeping an open mind and attitude will go a long way -

I may technically be Canadian, but I know I won't be seen as one by the 'locals' for a long time!!!

B

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Be willing to get out and about, meet people. The people who live in an area don't have to make an effort to include newcomers, they already have their lives and friends. It is up to the newcomers to make the effort - which will then usually be met with friendliness and involvement. The more people you meet, the more chances you will find people you can connect with, and go on to develop friendships.

Deborah

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Very good thread Judy.:)

For me I would say: Being open-minded, willing to adapt, accept changes that come along, use Canadian expressions/words, socialise, acknowledge hurdles will exist but nothing like the long drawn out hurdle we had to go through to get here in the first place.

Most of all I think it is about appreciating what we have here - a nicer house, flexibility, the beautiful scenery, the nature, opportunities and for us in particular the social diversity - particularly the First Nations community and all their history.

It was hard work getting here, it can be hard work living here but I wouldn't change it for the World. No regrets!:thumbsup:

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

I like ann m’s post too. Here’s my two cents worth (see, I’m integrating already!):

1/ Don’t come here for a better material quality of life (though you probably will get one). At the end of the day, material wealth contributes very little to happiness. Come here because you want part of Canada’s future.

This is a young country with a great future that will be moulded by the current generation. We are a country of immigrants who make the effort to get along with each other whilst we don’t forget our roots. We try our best to be friendly. We are a liberal democracy that would benefit greatly from more people being involved in the political process. We are, by and large, a country that values people who contribute to society – it is not what you are that matters, it is what you do. If you are going to succeed here you need to embrace these ideals and get involved.

If you have ever thought of voting for the BNP you’d probably be better off staying home.

2/ Don’t come for negative reasons. There are crap places in Canada, there is poverty, there are tiresome and unpleasant people. Nowhere near as many as the UK, granted, but if that is what you are running away from, that is what you will find again. Come for the positive things that Canada has to offer and you will likely find them first.

3/ It is a different country. We don’t do things the same way as they do in the UK. Embrace the difference, enjoy the difference.

4/ Canada has a great outdoors, and lots of it. We enjoy it and you should too.

5/ Make the effort to join in. Offer to help your neighbors with yard work, coach the local soccer teams, help out a charity (or get involved with your local church if that is your thing), invite people round for a beer and BBQ. Canadians are really easy to get along with and you’ll never make friends if you sit home all weekend, or if you stick with an ex-pat clique.

6/ Most of all, come because it is new, come because it is different, and come for the adventure of a new life.

7/ Of course, you CAN go back, and nothing ventured nothing gained and so on, but it is a colossal waste of time and money to do so. You have to be prepared to give it two years. IMO if you have the right attitudes from day one you won’t ever want to go back.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Remember that people are as often as unsure of you as you are them, we are the ones who sound funny and as far as they are concerned have high tea and crumpets lol!

Basically try and be open and people will warm to you. There is a different culture of communication and that's to embraced if you want to make the best of your new country. We are the odd ones and we have to do the fitting in - not the other way round.

I would also say don't be scared to ask questions - the Canadians seem to love to tell you about their country and are immensely and rightly proud of it, I have had no end of help about all sorts.

It's going to take a while to get up and running, so epect the odd hic up. And when you are having a bad day, ask if you are having a bad day because of Canada or because you would be quite probably be having one anyway wherever the situation were to occur.

I would say also, that try and enjoy the experience, because it's here to be enjoyed, just as life is. If you are a pessimistic, negative git in the UK stands to reason you will be here. So that may something that you need to work on before you get here. Reframe how you look at the world and all sorts of good stuff can happen...

Anyway, all the best to you all

Mrs Miggins x

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

It's a long time since I lived and worked in the UK so this may not be applicable any more but there's not a "Class System" in Canada.

There's isn't a command and control culture at work and you don't have to dress to the nines to impress people. It's not unusual to see seniors wearing T shirts and Jeans.

If you're a "Mrs Bucket" you're going to have trouble.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Couldn't have put it better myself :thumbsup:
Lynne

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

I suggest relying on an unshakable faith that you will one day be able to move on. That and taking as many out-of-country assignments as possible.

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That attitude is sure to help to settle in.

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One may want to "settle" but one should surely stop short of "going native".

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Remember you are the immigrant,

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

there's a class system here alright

It's that so much of canada is middle class or working class

that it doesn't have much impact, unless you move in the right circles

and they tend to be old school businesses or politics

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Oh but there's every day class snobbery too. The members of the Caledon Hunt very much look down upon those of the Hamilton Hunt not especially because they're richer but because they tend to be from older money. One finds the same between yacht clubs, the members of the RCYC still think of that other club on the island as the one that admits cosmopolitans.

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Sure there's different groups of people with their own rival values and they're looked upon with disdain but they don't have much clout like the aristocracy who who claim luxuries and privileges as a birthright

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

You mean Conrad Black and the Reichmans?

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

An important point about the class system in Canada is that the pinnacle is attained by moving to London. You can ask the hagiographer of the well to do Canadians, Peter C Newman, he's had to move there for proximity to his material.

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Conrad Black ain't Canadian any more. He had to give up his citizenship when he got a British peerage which seems to prove my point.

Re: Attitudes that assist in migration
 

Your point being that upper class Canadians are snobbish enough to give up their citizenship for the sake of social advancement?

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Or Canada exports them to where they belong.