Another victim of the system or is he?
 

A headline story from CBC BC
'I have no idea what I'm going to do': Courtenay B.C. man deported to the Netherlands.

So you click on the story and begin reading itA Courtenay B.C. man — who has lived in Canada for all but a few months of his life — was deported to the Netherlands on Monday.
Len Van Heest moved to Canada with his parents when he was a baby of eight months, but due to an oversight did not become a citizen.

1. Locate Kleenex box.

After nearly 60 years in Canada, B.C. man faces deportation to the Netherlands.

2. Grab tissue from box.

They're sending me to a foreign country, they're taking my mom away from me, all my friends. I'm devastated," he said.

3. Start dabbing away the tears.

Van Heest, 59, was first ordered deported in January 2008 after he was found inadmissible to Canada because of a 2001 conviction for assault with a weapon.
According to court documents, Van Heest was convicted of more than 40 criminal charges between 1976 and 2013.

Woah hang on all is not what it appears to be.

After years of delays, Van Heest's latest motion to stay in Vancouver was denied last Thursday. He has applied for permanent residence status based on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

Now before anyone starts accusing me of not being sympathetic Im afraid sympathy doesn't override the law.

So what can we learn from this?

If you have emigrated to Canada with small children then at the 1st earliest opportunity apply to get them Canadian citizenship be a responsible parent.
If you are from a country that doesn't allow dual citizenship then you have a dilemma as this could happen to one of your kids 30 years down the road.

Oh but my kids aren't like that some will say. Well I bet his parents probably said the same about him. We have no idea what our kids will turn out to be.

Now you can take this thread as a bit of good advice or simply ignore it. If Im still around in 20 odd years I just might resurrect this thread if one of your kids is now being deported and posting on here for help or advice.

'I have no idea what I'm going to do': Courtenay B.C. man deported to the Netherlands - British Columbia - CBC News

BTW this happens more and more but most cases are not reported by the media.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Another lesson, don't be a criminal.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

I'm sorry but what kind of oversight doesn't get fixed after almost 60 years. I suspect the oversight is that his family didn't bother for him to become a Canadian citizen. If his parents came from the Netherlands I find it hard to believe that he can't speak any of the language and from the times I've been to the Netherlands almost everybody can speak flawless english.


As per the CBC Article.


Van Heest, 59, was first ordered deported in January 2008 after he was found inadmissible to Canada because of a 2001 conviction for assault with a weapon.

According to court documents, Van Heest was convicted of more than 40 criminal charges between 1976 and 2013.

I think there is more to this than meets the eye.

Lesson learnt. If you want to stay in Canada and commit crimes and came here as a child get your parents to get citizenship.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

It seems to me that there is a problem with a policy of deporting long term residents who commit crimes. It might well be the case that the person is being deported to a place where they don't speak the language and that helps no one. It seems to me that there should be a convention whereby after some number of years the person becomes the problem of the country where they've been raised and gone bad, regardless of their citizenship.

That said, my heart's not bleeding for the Dutchman.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

They saying they going to try to get him PR. So I wonder what they will do about his lengthy criminal record? Maybe he will be pardoned ?

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

FL, your OP had me rolling on the floor & as a Canadian citizen I totally agree that the foreigner was deported, should have been 20 years earlier.

"Van Heest, 59, was first ordered deported in January 2008 after he was found inadmissible to Canada because of a 2001 conviction for assault with a weapon.
According to court documents, Van Heest was convicted of more than 40 criminal charges between 1976 and 2013"

I have zero sympathy for anyone that isn't a Canadian citizen, that breaks the law then gets deported

That man (many others like him/her) is/was a danger to society to all of the law abiding folks that live in my country, he breaks the law, then he gets deported & wants our sympathy.... thank you to the 'law enforcement people, the RCMP, CBSA, justice dept & everyone else involved

Sorted


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Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

I read the article today and seems he suffers from bipolar and most of his criminal activity seems to stem from that.

When in a manic state a bipolar may not be aware of their behavior and actions and not capable of rational decisions.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Good advice. Maybe most cases aren't reported because they aren't considered newsworthy enough; either the deportee isn't evil or saintly enough to arouse interest.
Edit: After reading Jsmith's post I'll have to watch and see what happens, but can't see his previous convictions being disregarded if his mental state didn't prevent him from being convicted at trial.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

The story has been updated since I originally posted. The article mentioned nothing about him being bipolar nor the fact that he served 9 months in prison at the time of posting.
From the age of 18 I would question was he bipolar before and does being bipolar stop you from querying if you are a Canadian citizen and applying for it?
I have no idea but again whatever excuse or his condition is now being reported still doesn't override the law.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

The Elizabeth May comment in that article totally 'pi$$ed me off'

I suppose she needs to let everyone know that she is still around

The poor guy had only this to say

"They're sending me to a foreign country, they're taking my mom away from me, all my friends. I'm devastated," he said.

""I have no plans once I arrive," he said. "My cousin is going to meet me there . . . or my auntie, or whoever she is, and I'll just take it from there"

On arrival, he gets a warm bed, food - what more could a criminal ask for?


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Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

I presume he has a right to a Dutch passport....he should use it as an EUcitizen to move to an English speaking country, he has until the end of the month before BREXIT is triggered.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

:thumbsup: perfect

He could move to the UK

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Or go USA then walk across the border back to mom

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

If his convictions are notified to the Schengen Information System, then he'd be inadmissable to the UK even as an EU national on the grounds of public safety.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Given that he is a 'criminal', that he may find his way around certain things

Is the UK in the Schengen?

Back on soil in the Netherlands as a criminal, would he be allowed to have a Dutch passport?


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Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Like so many I'm a potential immigrant living in the country on PR status and I have a little card to demonstrate the fact and it took a lot of effort to get it.

Whenever I do anything, from accessing my bank account, renewing my drivers licence to scratching my bum, there's always the question... 'Need to see your ID please!' or 'What is your status in canada?'

So what kind of status did the man have in 1976, some 40 years ago when he would have been a young man?.... and throughout the years during his many encounters with the law, why was his status never an issue.. especially in 2001?

Apparently if you walk like a canadian, talk like a canadian and behave like a canadian then the average RCMP will think you're a canadian and forget the onerous task of doing his job of being a law officer.

In my opinion, his deportation is better late than never. The next crime he committed might have been against me and on admittance to hospital as I lay in a coma the first question would have been 'Need to see his ID?'

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

If he isn't a PR, what has been his status in Canada all these years?

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

On a slightly different angle....

He's not a citizen, nor a PR. Does this never come up in any of all his life events?

Original application for a SIN? I remember the rigmarole I had to go through prior to getting PR status. CRA needed a tax return for me to continue paying child benefits to my wife but they needed a SIN, which entailed me applying for one solely so they could refuse it as I was not yet a PR and "had no need of one" and only then CRA could give me a temporary one to reinstate the child benefit.

I never applied for a driving licence but it seemed to be the same requirements for Provincial ID. I needed to prove my ID. I had my passport and utility bills to confirm my address, but then I had that when I couldn't access other stuff until PR. So I got my provincial ID when I got PR.

Do they refuse ID card but make an exception and give a driving licence if you're not PR?

Presumably he had medical treatment for his diagnosis? What about his Medicare application? I remember being under the impression that actual or practical residency was good enough for coverage, but NB medicare insisted I had to wait until PR which, thanks to CIC errors, took over two years of actual residency in NB.

What about all those offences? I assume the police (and the courts?) want ID. What does he have that demonstrates the right to live in Canada?

Perhaps at some stage he (or parents for him) obtained a Canadian Birth Certificate. I have one myself (Quebec marriage people told me to get one when I married in Quebec :confused:) but I needed documentation to get one. What did he (or parents) provide?

Employment? The subject never came up? EI? Social assistance?

What was it that prompted the deportation action and whatever it was, why was it not prompted earlier.

Every time he came across an employer or some other form of officialdom it was always assumed he was a citizen or PR despite the absence of any document to say so?

Was a birth cert (detailing birth outside Canada) always considered acceptable and nobody wondered if there should be a further document?

He can't really have lived off grid all this time, can he? With all that legal and medical involvement?

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Ah...the short version of what I just said. :lol:

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

looks like he is sorted for now

Dutchman deported from Canada taken in by Salvation Army, cousin | NL Times

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

He may. Just as any Dutch national who hasn't lived in Canada almost all his life could.

No. But there is sharing of information between UK immigration and the SIS.

In most of the cases of EU criminals in the UK, it's usually because the information hasn't been entered on the SIS database.

Asa long as he has a Dutch birth certificate, I don't see how he could be refused a Dutch passport.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Yet another "perk", along with access to European Arrest Warrants, which the frothing eurosceptics will throw out with the bathwater.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

I didn't see this before mine. I can't be that slow at typing :o

(this is where that old feature about a new post was handy :nod:)

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

If he was born in NL how could he get a Canadian birth certificate?

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

I have one from Quebec as well as my original from England. :nod:

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Does your Quebec birth certificate state place of birth as England UK?

In having a Quebec birth certificate, does this 'automatically' make you a citizen of Quebec & Canada?

Was one of your parents Canadian?

edit:

Likely covered in the following?

http://www.etatcivil.gouv.qc.ca/en/insertion-act.html

Bristol, maybe you are already a Canadian citizen by having that 'provincial birth certificate' eh!

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passpor...ship-proof.asp




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Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Wow..never heard of that.

I know that my brother got married in the UK and his wife was from the UK. When they got married she changed her surname. A few months later she moved to Quebec where my brother was living at the time.

When she went to apply for drivers licence, health card etc they wouldn't accept the documents to be issued under her new surname. It had to be issued in her original surname. This exasperated her a lot as the original surname was that of her father who she didn't have much to do with.

Needless to say all documents requiring a signature she signed with the new surname which didn't look anything like the printed surname on the document.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Yes.

No

No

The certificate is the same as those of the rest of the family. Probably to an official of the department issuing them, they could see a difference but to anyone else, likely not.

So if the Dutchman got one similarly, it may be that people just took it at face value. But you'd think someone somewhere saw The Netherlands and thought "hey, that's not Canada, what's your status?"

Funny lot in Quebec :lol:
We had some puzzled looks after moving to NB, explaining to people that we were married but with different surnames as Quebec insisted upon it. :nod:
Mind you, funny lot in NB too. My stepson doesn't want to be associated with his father either but shares his name. To change it he has to have reasons accepted and have the new name 'approved' :confused:
Or at least that's how it was when I last checked.

It was the people doing the marriage licence stuff in Quebec that told me to get a Quebec birth cert. It really sounded like it was required but I'm not convinced they didn't just mean easier. It was only $15 or $20 and the idea rather amused me so I got one.

But the folk in the office issuing it didn't seem to agree it was correct. :unsure:

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

The responses here suggesting that the chap had no status in Canada may be a bit premature.

I'm by no means an expert, but I believe he is (or was) a PR. He had his PR status taken away because he was sentenced to more than six months.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Well, that would explain a lot and it may be that in view of previous cases in the news, both in Canada and the UK, where long time residents lose status on some technicality/failing to apply for something when they could have, we have made some erroneous assumptions.

But the article linked does say "He was denied permanent Canadian residency because of his criminal record" which suggests not granted it to begin with rather than lost it.

Perhaps another report was more specific?

I notice, also, that near the end of the report it says "Van Heest's lawyer, Robin Bajer, said he is appealing to have Van Heest granted permanent residence status on compassionate grounds" rather than reinstatement.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but dual citizenship for the Dutch was a no-go for years anyway. So even if he had eventually acquired Canadian citizenship, then after 2003, even if you had Dutch citizenship and dual citizenship with another country, if you spent more than 10 years outside the Netherlands, you would lose your Dutch citizenship anyway.

Sounds like an unsatisfactory situation all round. Returning him to a country he knows nothing about, and doesn't speak the language, and potentially putting the onus of care onto distant relatives does not bode well for a long or in any way successful life.

Has he managed to stay out of trouble for the past 10 years? Give him back to his mum. But it sounds like he might need long term mental health care in the near future if mum is in her 80's. Who provides and pays for that? The "system" won't as it can't cope already.

What a mess.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

BristolUK, depending on newspaper articles for hard, objective facts is a dangerous business. Journalists love to write stuff that advances an agenda, sells newspapers, or both. Who cares about the "truth" ?

He was a permanent resident.

Here is his one of his many appeals against his removal order. Quote:

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Excellent bit of research for a newcomer. Too many people on here reliant on the stories themselves as opposed to actual verifiable facts which can cause heated discussions between members.
Don't even think about a thread on the current refugee situation in Manitoba, Quebec or BC (not the Syrian refugees). If the full truth was known some might reconsider their position.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Former Lancastrian, how does the newspaper coverage of the 'canadian refugee crisis' differ from the objective facts ?

I have no facts to verify against, but perhaps you do.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Yes, I'm aware of that. (No sarcasm or rudeness intended)

I don't think CBC - dependent upon government money - falls into an anti Canadian government agenda though.

More relevantly, note that I based my impression not only on what the writer said but also the comment from the guy's lawyer.

Thanks for the link confirming he was indeed originally a PR. :thumbup:

Seems like careless writing rather than anything else.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Remember the Journo maxim "never allow the truth to get in the way of a (good) story"

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

FL, I wouldn't change my view. Just for the record.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Oh boy Im sticking my neck out on this one.

The vast majority crossing the border in between ports of entry entering Canada are not refugees. They are people seeking protection and on arrival making a refugee claim as defined by section 97(1) of IRPA as opposed to a convention refugee as described in section 96 of IRPA.

We can then split these people down into other groups

Citizens of countries who entered the USA and lawfully admitted to the USA by having a valid visa. So if lawfully admitted to the USA and in fear how come they didn't make an asylum/refugee claim in the USA?

Citizens of countries who entered the USA unlawfully or lawfully then overstayed and then made a claim in the USA which was denied and ordered to leave the USA or their claim is still pending.

Citizens of countries who entered the USA lawfully/unlawfully over stayed and did not make a claim and then made their way to Canada to make a claim.

Citizens of countries who were granted convention refugee status in another country e.g. Sweden, Switzerland etc. Didn't like living in that country so made their way to Canada and making a claim and not disclosing that they have already been granted protection which would make them ineligible to make a claim in Canada as per section 101(1)(d) of IRPA or came from a designated country as per 101(1)(e) or inadmissible under 101(1)(f).

Those found to be ineligible are then told that they can make an application for a Pre Removal Risk Assessment if eligible. A lot of those ineligible to make a refugee claim are eligible to make a PRAA application.

What also the press are not reporting is that if a person is ineligible to make a claim and ineligible for PRAA then if they come from certain countries listed on the Administrative Deferral Of Removal (ADR) or Temporary Suspension Of Removal (TSR) then Canada will not remove them unless they are inadmissible under serious criminality section 36(1) or a security risk under section 34, 35 or 37 of IRPA.

Where removal orders have been issued to individuals they also have appeal rights before the IRB and where applicable the Federal Court Of Canada.

We have had individuals where it has taken over 20 years to remove and the odd one or two who will never be removed.

Manitoba and Ontario provincial leaders are now seeking help as they need more money, accommodation, language training, mental health assistance etc etc for some of these individuals. Some of these claimants are pregnant on arrival.

Nobody is suggesting that the genuine claimants in fear should not be helped however there are a number of individuals making claims who have found not to be credible and had their claims denied but get to stay and apply for work permits due to the ADR or TSR being in place.

A certain number are no shows for their refugee hearings and simply go underground hoping they won't be caught and even if caught can they be removed as per the ADR & TSR.

Canada as a country cannot help all of the 63 million displaced persons in the world of which 21 million are refugees in the camps and 10 million stateless persons.
Canada does not have infinite money. Granted some of the claimants become very productive members of society but a certain proportion do not and commit crimes within Canada and then deported where applicable.

A lot of the media reports focus on the plight of the individuals and I agree a lot of them have been through horrendous situations but the media doesn't cover the negative aspects of what is going on.

There is no simple solution. When does Canada either put a No Room At The Inn Sign up or realize they don't have the financial means to help everyone who sets foot on Canadian soil.

Re: Another victim of the system or is he?
 

Invitations have consequences. Merkel already knows this, perhaps it's now dawning on Trudeau?

If a country's ruling class feels generous towards the displaced of this earth, they have to be able to withstand the populist backlash.