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Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Old Oct 7th 2012, 11:58 am
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by phyns View Post
On a note related to this thread, all trials conducted in NZ follow the same guide lines as Australia (ANZCTR).
Ok now wind it back a notch to my original question.

Where and when was the public consultation? Did Tony Ryall make the decision unilaterally and who gave him the authority to do that?
Was there an ethics debate about xenotransplantation in New Zealand, somewhere that places a great emphasis on its consultative ethos. Did the public have an opportunity to have their say in this and why is it being presented as if it's already a done deal?

And my next question is this. Will Parkinsons suffers still be freely offered other treatments including the gold standard: deep brain stimulation ?
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 12:24 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by Expat Kiwi View Post
Was there an ethics debate about xenotransplantation in New Zealand, somewhere that places a great emphasis on its consultative ethos. Did the public have an opportunity to have their say in this and why is it being presented as if it's already a done deal?

And my next question is this. Will Parkinsons suffers still be freely offered other treatments including the gold standard: deep brain stimulation ?
No idea. All I see is NZ and Australian companies about to make a breakthrough that hopefully will change a lot of lives for the better.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 1:33 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by phyns View Post
On a note related to this thread, all trials conducted in NZ follow the same guide lines as Australia (ANZCTR).
After I replied you went back and edited your post to add

You might also want to add the it's not just an Austrian company but also Diatranz Otsuka Limited (NZ) so it makes perfect sense that trials would be conducted in NZ. They are also testing in Argentina. If this breakthrough works it will be ground breaking.

Summary. Companies that have done the research are based in Australia and NZ so it's reasonable to assume some trials would be done in NZ.
I'm glad you're starting to research this more thoroughly but you may also like to add that Diatranz Otsuka Limited is a subdivision of the Otsuka Pharmaceutical factory, based in Japan. It formed a partnership with Living Cell Technologies and saved it from closure and LCT didn't announce a final dividend at the end of the 2011-12 financial year.

Weren't the trials in Argentina for diabetes and not Parkinson's disease? and why are you calling this a breakthrough when these types of tests have been going on for years in America with very limited success?

As far as I can see the only breakthrough is that someone has decided that New Zealanders are going to be offered as guinea pigs, without a word being uttered about ethics or safety.

What chance is there for informed consent under such conditions?

Last edited by Expat Kiwi; Oct 7th 2012 at 1:38 pm.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 2:15 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by Expat Kiwi View Post
As far as I can see the only breakthrough is that someone has decided that New Zealanders are going to be offered as guinea pigs, without a word being uttered about ethics or safety.

What chance is there for informed consent under such conditions?
Ah I see. This is British Expats, not the NZ herald. Please direct your concerns there.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 7:09 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Weird thread. I am happy that there is a thread that is a little more than a discussion of practical matters or bacon or houses. But why can you guys not handle a few critical questions? I realize that Expat Kiwi seems to know how to push some buttons but still her questions are valid and should be looked at. If, lets say the French (forgive me) would test on Germans, I would also like to know why and why not in France. That seems to be quite a reasonable thing to ask. And the answer might very well be acceptable. Also if there are standards and these standards include an open discussion about ethics why haven't we been informed and involved? Why should New Zealand shoulder all the potential negative effects of these drug tests and let Japan/Australia reap the profits later?
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:10 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

So ... who do you think has the best interest of Parkinson's Disease sufferers in NZ most at heart?
a) Expat Kiwi from Queensland Australia from the BE forum, who in her posts has shown she has little time for NZ and who knows a lot about Parkinson's Disease (as well as being a world authority Child Psychologist, demographer, sociologist, economist, historian and anthropologist), because she read it on the internet?
Or
b) Parkinson's New Zealand and the NZ medical profession?

And how do you know NZ will not benefit, apart from in a possible health way. Have you read the contracts? Do you know the exact structure of the company? Are NZer's employed by them? Do NZ experts work for them and draw salaries from them?
Also consider the fact that the trial will only be undertaken on 4 very severe Parkinson's sufferers first (according to the snippets I read). It is not compulsory to take part and reports suggest that sufferers are eager to take part. Where the Hekia is the problem?



Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
Weird thread. I am happy that there is a thread that is a little more than a discussion of practical matters or bacon or houses. But why can you guys not handle a few critical questions? I realize that Expat Kiwi seems to know how to push some buttons but still her questions are valid and should be looked at. If, lets say the French (forgive me) would test on Germans, I would also like to know why and why not in France. That seems to be quite a reasonable thing to ask. And the answer might very well be acceptable. Also if there are standards and these standards include an open discussion about ethics why haven't we been informed and involved? Why should New Zealand shoulder all the potential negative effects of these drug tests and let Japan/Australia reap the profits later?

Last edited by waikatoguy; Oct 7th 2012 at 8:16 pm.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:19 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by waikatoguy View Post
So ... who do you think has the best interest of Parkinson's Disease sufferers in NZ most at heart?
a) Expat Kiwi from Queensland Australia from the BE forum, who in her posts has shown she has little time for NZ and who knows a lot about Parkinson's Disease (as well as being a world authority Child Psychologist, demographer, sociologist, economist, historian and anthropologist), because she read it on the internet?
Or
b) Parkinson's New Zealand and the NZ medical profession?
I really don't see the relevance of this to the discussion. It seems to be more of a diatribe.
Just a quick comment to b), the medical profession has (at least in Europe) clear financial interests. And there is an ongoing discussion in Germany about "payments" which pharmaceutical companies give to medical doctors who in return promote the company's drugs. Doctors seem to be very enthusiastic about adopting new medication - sometimes without regards to evidence as to their efficiency in comparison to old drugs.

Last edited by Assanah; Oct 7th 2012 at 8:28 pm.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:26 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by waikatoguy View Post

And how do you know NZ will not benefit, apart from in a possible health way. Have you read the contracts? Do you know the exact structure of the company? Are NZer's employed by them? Do NZ experts work for them and draw salaries from them?
Also consider the fact that the trial will only be undertaken on 4 very severe Parkinson's sufferers first (according to the snippets I read). It is not compulsory to take part and reports suggest that sufferers are eager to take part. Where the Hekia is the problem?
Don't you see a potential problem with using "very severe Parkinson's sufferers" in medical experiments? I do.

I don't think that I will be allow to view the contracts or that the company will allow me to view a list of their employees and their salaries. However, I expect the officials involved to at least tell me in what way NZ will benefit and what the potential risks are.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:28 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

I think Expat Kiwi instead of enjoying her wondeful life like she claims in Oz, she spends most of her time looking up negative facts about NZ to try and make her feel better

And as for Asaana, well we know you hate NZ we get the message

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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by love30stm View Post
I think Expat Kiwi instead of enjoying her wondeful life like she claims in Oz, she spends most of her time looking up negative facts about NZ to try and make her feel better

And as for Asaana, well we know you hate NZ we get the message

Hate is a very strong word. I don't hate NZ. And I don't appreciate you insinuating this. And just in case you haven't read what I wrote: I would have asked the same questions if this was the case in Germany. Just to quote one of the posters here "Where the Hekia is the problem?"

Last edited by Assanah; Oct 7th 2012 at 8:34 pm.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:38 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
Don't you see a potential problem with using "very severe Parkinson's sufferers" in medical experiments? I do.
Not if they are of sound mind, which I assume will be part of the ethical decision making regarding who would be accepted for the trial. For example, Michael J Fox would be classified as a very severe sufferer, I imagine, and he is completely with it mentally. He's starring in a new TV show shortly I believe as a Parkinsons sufferer.
If people want to take part, who are we to deny them that opportunity. That's what I reckon.

Last edited by waikatoguy; Oct 7th 2012 at 8:41 pm.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 8:57 pm
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
Just to quote one of the posters here "Where the Hekia is the problem?"
I actually stole that from a billboard at a protest against the Minister of Education.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 9:41 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
I really don't see the relevance of this to the discussion. It seems to be more of a diatribe.
Just a quick comment to b), the medical profession has (at least in Europe) clear financial interests. And there is an ongoing discussion in Germany about "payments" which pharmaceutical companies give to medical doctors who in return promote the company's drugs. Doctors seem to be very enthusiastic about adopting new medication - sometimes without regards to evidence as to their efficiency in comparison to old drugs.
I think the medical profession anywhere has clear financial interests. Doctors in the UK & NZ have been give financial incentives (+ holidays etc.) to promote certain drugs, I have seen it in both countries. I also know that health boards in NZ with an excellent purchasing department have been trying to curb it for the past few years, by taking purchasing power away from clinicians.

If I had Parkinsons then I would volunteer for this trial but thankfully I don't so I shall just eat some back bacon instead
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 10:40 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

So far this thread has mentioned several countries who have an interest in such trials so it seems to me that this topic deserves the input from a wider international audience.
I know just the place where people living in other countries languish.

The Lounge.
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Old Oct 7th 2012, 10:56 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Transplanting pig brain cells into humans

Thanks Bevs.
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